Live Dialogue with Helga Zepp-LaRouche

Dying Tricks of a Dying System

The full video of this webcast is available here. The following is an edited transcript.

Harley Schlanger: Hello and welcome to our weekly dialogue with Schiller Institute founder and chairwoman, Helga Zepp-LaRouche. This is Wednesday, January 24, 2024, and I’m your host, Harley Schlanger. You can send your questions and comments to questions@schillerinstitute.org.

Death of the Old System, Birth of a New

Sorry we’re starting a bit late because we had a technical problem to resolve. So, let’s get right to the questions.

Helga, the title of today’s webcast provoked our first question from a viewer in Texas: “What makes you so sure the system is dying? It seems as if they can keep kicking the can down the road. I agree with what Lyndon LaRouche said years ago, that after 1971, they will go for a global fascist order, but will that keep their system alive, and if so, how?”

Helga Zepp-LaRouche: The freakout on the side of the Western oligarchy is gigantic, because they now see the huge blowback against their policies: policies like the sanctions against Russia, the weaponization of the dollar, the continuous mechanisms of colonialism in the form of conditionalities, and various other factors. Right now, there is the clear emergence of a new system. Apart from what we have discussed in previous shows, the new development is the two huge meetings in Kampala, Uganda, of the Non-Aligned Movement (NAM), and then of the G77, involving 3,000 delegates from 120 countries.

The NAM conference produced a Kampala Declaration, under the banner, “Deepening Cooperation for Shared Global Affluence.”

This is a really big development: It means that the countries of the Global South that have long since become the Global Majority are intending to end a system of 600 years of colonialism. The Western oligarchy is sitting on an incredible bubble of unpayable derivatives. It’s just a question of time—they always have a way of moving some tricks in the system—but there is an end to the road in sight, and the only question that should concern anybody who is in their right mind, is, can we convince enough sections of the so-called North or West, in time, to realize that it would be in their best interest to cooperate with that vast majority of mankind? President Yoweri Museveni of Uganda [who assumed the Chairmanship of the Non-Aligned Movement] said it very precisely:

Why would the global actors not realize that it would be in the interest of everybody to work with the Global South and that everybody would have prosperity, and that everybody would profit much more from that, than if the vast majority of the world population is kept in poverty?

Now, there are two possibilities: Either this transformation into such a new order, whereby the countries of the Global South are accepted as equal partners in a new system of joint cooperation, of win-win respect for each other—either that transformation occurs peacefully, and soon—or else, there is the absolute danger that the geopolitical confrontation which exists right now between NATO on the one side, and mainly Russia and China on the other side, will lead to a global catastrophe. I personally do not see a third way, because either we can act as a human species, based on reason, or, the interest of the few will ruin the world for everybody.

One way or another, the system will come to an end, not only for financial reasons, but simply because the dynamic now in motion will mean a decision one way or another will be on the table fairly soon.

World War III? Not Inevitable

Schlanger: We have a question from Manuel Miguel Enrique: “Good morning from Spain. I would like to ask if a third world war is inevitable, since all bridges of understanding seem to have been broken?”

Zepp-LaRouche: No, it’s not. If it were, I would not sit here, in a relatively optimistic mood. If it would be inevitable, I think then the universe would not be the way it is: There is free will in the universe. That is built into the lawfulness of the universe, and there is nobody who has said this more precisely than Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, who, as you may know, spoke of the “best of all possible worlds” in which we are living.

This was not what Voltaire tried to make out of it, as a sarcastic attack. What Leibniz meant is simply that the universe is built in such a way that every force of evil triggers the potential for an even much larger force for the good. That can also be expressed in a different way: You can say that the universe is organized in an anti-entropic way; that basically the development from the biosphere into the noösphere, as Vladimir Vernadsky would have said it; that that tendency is increasing, and that therefore, the more the cognitive element in the world is gaining domination over simply biological processes, the higher the chances that, indeed, we will reach a new era of civilization.

“Free will,” however, does not mean that it’s deterministic. It’s not some “histomat” or “diamat”—short for “historical materialism” or “dialectical materialism.” It simply means that if enough people of good will are mobilizing for a positive vision of where humanity should go, the likelihood that we will be able to accomplish that is extremely high. So, it’s largely a subjective factor, it’s not an objective conditionality, which is why we need you to become active with us so that we can put the solutions on the table, the solutions being especially the need for a new security and development architecture, which takes into account the interest of every country on the planet.

So, a new world war is not inevitable, but it does require a lot of work to avert, and the mobilization of a lot of good people.

The Trial of the Century

Schlanger: There are a lot of questions of a similar sort, about on the one side, the positive developments: the German farmers, the South African court case; but on the other side, the insanity of the latest Ramstein meeting [of the Ukraine Defense Contact Group] yesterday. So, let me start with a question on the South African development, the International Court of Justice, (speaking of free will): “Do you have a thought on how and when the ICJ will rule?” And the same person asks, “What kind of twisted logic is behind Germany’s motion of support for Israel at the ICJ?”

Zepp-LaRouche: Well, I hope that the decision will occur soon for a temporary action, because every day is obviously of extreme importance for the people who are in this unbelievable situation in Gaza.

I don’t know what is wrong with Germany. There are now so many open letters, by concerned Jewish people to the German government, by parliamentarians, by all kinds of people. It is an unfortunate development—Germany has taken the guilt for the Holocaust that happened 80 years ago; that is a good thing because some other countries that have committed crimes that are maybe not exactly the same, but [are] also quite incredible—have not taken responsibility for their crimes. So, I think it is laudable that Germany has, to a very large extent, worked through what the National Socialists committed.

But, if you then are blind to what is going on around you, it is definitely a tragic thing—and I’m afraid that Germany will be isolated internationally as a result of it. You already saw that the President of Namibia, Hage Geingob, came out and said, that this is the third genocide Germany is, in this case, condoning, after the genocide against the Herero [and Nama] in [German South West Africa (now Namibia)] at the beginning of the 20th century; then the second genocide was the Holocaust; and now Germany is closing its eyes on what is going on in Gaza.

This has to be reversed. All the legal professionals in Germany should intervene, because if you study the arguments made before the ICJ in The Hague, if you are in any way objective, you can only come to the conclusion that the argument by South Africa is very well documented, and the counter-argument by Israel is very poor.

Now, the effect will be what we see already: Artists from the Global South are already quitting. Somebody has pulled out a movie from the Berlinale [the Berlin International Film Festival]. There were other cultural events cancelled, and I’m quite concerned that this is just the beginning. Germany used to have a very good reputation, because of its power of innovation, because of its many discoveries, because of its economic powers, because of the image associated with “Made in Germany” for decades in the postwar period, and especially, for its great cultural contribution to world history. Germany had an extremely positive image within many, many countries in the world. I know that from many personal discussions: That is all being lost! And if Germany does not shape up, it will become, together with the United States and the British, a pariah among states. It will be very difficult to undo such a development.

I think this is a tragedy and I can only say, there is still time to correct it, but it has to occur really quickly.

Germany in Turmoil

Schlanger: We have two more questions on Germany. One is from a German who lives in Thailand: “By what authority can the German government agree to send military helicopters, as reported from the latest Ramstein meeting, and possibly long-range missiles, to Ukraine? Doesn’t there have to be a vote in the Bundestag? Has there been a vote?”

The second question is from Ohio: “Congratulations to the German farmers. Any chance that the American farmers might join them and drive tractors to Washington to protest U.S. policies, as they did in the late 1970s?”

Zepp-LaRouche: Well, let’s start with the first question. U.S. Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin called his Ukraine support group to meet at the Ramstein Air Base in Germany, as if Ramstein was a part of the United States. To my knowledge, he never asked anybody if he could do that; he just does it.

I mean, it’s just a symptom, that right now, unfortunately, Germany is one hundred percent a colony of the Anglosphere—I wouldn’t say U.S., but I would say Anglosphere, because it is the Anglo-American thrust. It’s the old principle of NATO: Lord [Hastings Lionel] Ismay, NATO’s first Secretary General once so famously said that the purpose of NATO is “to keep the Russians out, keep the Americans in, and keep the Germans down.” Unfortunately, the present crop of so-called leadership in Germany doesn’t have the backbone to defend German interests!

The only hope I see, and this comes to the second question, is the fact that for the very first time since a very long time, large segments of the German population are taking to the streets: farmers, truckers, craftsmen, bakers, and many other groupings are now fighting for the very existence of agriculture. Hopefully, transport workers and large sections of the Mittelstand will join at some point.

Germany right now is in a free fall—not least as a result of the sabotage of the Nord Stream gas pipelines, which triggered the high energy prices. Germans are fighting for their very existence, not only materially. People are really upset. I just find what happened incredible! On Monday, Jan. 8, when their demonstrations started, the farmers had an incredible demonstration with 100,000 tractors! The whole country was practically paralyzed, but it was peaceful, it was well-coordinated.

And then, what happened? Two days later, on Jan. 10, all of a sudden, a press story breaks, put out by CORRECTIV, a group of so-called investigative journalists, who are financed by all kinds of hedge funds and foundations and whatnot. They come out with a completely fabricated story that a group of right-wingers had met on Nov. 25, 2023, in Potsdam, near the hotel where the [Jan. 20, 1942] Wannsee Conference took place [where the Nazi Party and German government officials gathered to coordinate implementation of the “Final Solution to the Jewish Question”], implying that the Nov. 25, 2023 meeting is in the same tradition, and that the participants in that meeting had decided on a plan to “re-migrate” a lot of people who are looking to Germany for asylum, and that this is a big secret plot which they have discovered.

Now, I took the opportunity to compare what was reported by this CORRECTIV group, by looking at some of its press coverage, and all I could find is that some of these people apparently quoted from a book from some Austrian author [Martin Sellner] who is part of the Identitarian Movement Austria. His book is out in the fourth edition, in which he proposes the re-transport of a lot of foreigners back to their home countries. When I compared the text which was used, it’s identical to what Chancellor Olaf Scholz said in a [Oct. 21, 2023] cover story in Der Spiegel, for a “Big offensive for re-transport of asylum seekers”—the same language!

The whole thing is a phony, but because it was published as such a big drama, naturally, the churches, trade unions, and parties called out their people to make large demonstrations, and there were indeed hundreds of thousands of people in the streets last weekend. It completely overshadowed, or it was designed to overshadow, the demonstrations of the farmers.

Now, this is really a very strange story. First of all, if it was such a big scandal, why was it canned and not published for six weeks? Why was it only published two days after the farmers had 100,000 tractors in the streets? Furthermore, why are the same people not going out in the streets to demonstrate against the push for war?

NATO’s Military Committee Chairman Adm. Rob Bauer came out, with the Berlin tabloid Bild-Zeitung’s big headlines: “We have 36 hours to prepare.” He said that “everybody should get batteries, water, because if there is a Russian assault in Europe, the first 36 hours are crucial.” People are being driven into a fear reaction. Everywhere, they are hearing about the coming war with Russia in two years, or 18 months, in five years—but in any case, as if it were certain this is coming.

Now, that is indeed creating the danger of a “self-fulfilling prophecy”—if you keep doing that, I’m afraid the conflict will happen. But it is a complete orchestration. There are so many reasons to demonstrate, to support the farmers, for example, because they produce the food that is the existence for everybody. People should support the farmers! There is also reason to demonstrate against the cutting of all social programs, that there is no infrastructure, no school repairs. There are many, many reasons to demonstrate.

But the large number of people falling for this phony operation, really shows how the population needs to be a little bit smarter. [However,] I spoke with some people who participated in the phony demonstration, and they told me they were really not there to protest against the AfD Party, because the AfD is not saying anything much different than what Chancellor Scholz (SPD Party) and the CDU Party are saying, so it’s a complete dog and pony show! But the people were there because they were upset, and they wanted to know what other people were upset about.

I just want to say I think it’s extremely good that in this case, many American farmers have already sent support telegrams to the German farmers, and I would hope that that becomes more. There are also now nationwide demonstrations announced in Italy, Spain, France, Holland, so it is definitely spreading, and the farmers in Germany have said they will not stop until the government agrees to their demands.

A Color Revolution for Russia?

Schlanger: Helga we have a couple of questions about the confrontation, or the pending confrontation, so-called, with Russia. From London, we have this: “With elections coming up in Russia in March, isn’t it likely that the West will launch some kind of false-flag provocation to destabilize Russia as part of a Maidan-style color revolution to do a regime change against Putin?”

And from Belgrade, we have this: “There are moves toward a color revolution against the Aleksander Vučić government in Serbia. Isn’t it likely something similar will be launched against Putin?”

Zepp-LaRouche: There is reason to be concerned about that because there is this organization, called “Free Nations of Post-Russia Forum,” that has organized a lot of conferences already in the United States—in Philadelphia, in Washington, and other places. They are advertising to cut Russia up into 40 different entities. They apparently have some people on the ground in Russia, whom they call “freedom fighters,” or something like that, who have done sabotage actions. So, there is reason to be concerned, but I do not think that it will be successful, because I think the larger part of the Russian population is backing what President Putin is doing, and the present government.

It’s always very difficult to have a complete insight into another country; you can only go by certain parameters. Looking at the larger picture, the strategic situation and how, for example, the countries of the Global South are relating to not only China, but also to Russia, I think they have chosen the side from which they believe they have a better deal, a better friendship, and better cooperation. In addition, I think the real game is the big one. It is not just what’s going on inside Russia and the coming elections, but I think it is whether forces in the world can work together quickly enough to get us peacefully into a new era.

Because we’re sitting on a complete powder keg. Every January, the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists publishes what they call the Doomsday Clock. For this January, they left it set at 90 seconds to midnight, because the danger to humanity is really great. So therefore, I cannot completely deny the possibility that such a thing could happen, but I doubt extremely that it would be successful.

The European Union Doesn’t Represent Europeans

Schlanger: Helga, we have a couple more questions. Dalia in United Kingdom asks: “As the U.S. and United Kingdom escalate wars in Ukraine, in Gaza, and now in the Red Sea, it seems they expect the European Union to support them, to pick up the pieces, and to pay the bill. Do you agree? What is the European Union policy on these things?”

Zepp-LaRouche: The EU does not represent the interests of its member states; that’s for sure. Trump won the New Hampshire Republican Primary; he’s ahead of Nikki Haley. She has not yet quit, but it’s very likely that the donors, the moneybags behind Nikki Haley will stop investing in a failed project. So, Trump could very likely be the next President.

And there is a big panic among the Western elites in Europe that the United States would stop supporting Ukraine. That could happen long before Election Day, leaving Europe to pay for all of the damage created. And that is a big, big, big burden—and the same goes if Europe allows itself to be drawn into the conflict in Southwest Asia. It can only amplify the problem.

The problem is that we have only the beginning of movements in Europe that are fighting for the interests of the member states. The more people start to really think it through—to understand that the most important issue right now is doing everything we can do to keep world peace—the more likely we will have it. If it comes to nuclear war, everything will be lost! If it comes to nuclear war, there will be a nuclear winter afterwards, no life on the planet will be left, and no historians will be left to investigate who was guilty for this having happened. And that is my worst fear, because I think we’re very close to that.

And any expert who’s thinking clearly sees that the present crop of politicians are playing with things, the danger of which previous generations were extremely aware. [Previous political leaders] made all kinds of treaties, disarmament negotiations—they were conscious. But the present crop of politicians, they go out and yell into the room, “Ruin Russia! Ruin Russia!” They have no knowledge of history, of the strategic situation—nor are they concerned beyond their little egos. That is the greatest danger. We urgently need a lot of educated, thinking state-citizens to become active. Because if we had a large number of people educating themselves about the military, the economy, culture, diplomacy, and educating others, that behavior would not be tolerated.

Leibniz and the Founding of the United States

Schlanger: Helga, I have one final question for you, from David: “Was Leibniz responsible for the language in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence in the United States?” and he said, “Often John Locke is referenced. What was Leibniz’s role?”

Zepp-LaRouche: Well, Leibniz was clearly the influence, and not Locke, in the Declaration of Independence, and, naturally, the Constitution—because Benjamin Franklin, for example, had extensive networks in Europe who transmitted this influence. The very formulation in the Declaration of Independence about the “inalienable rights” for “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness,”—is Leibniz! It’s not “property,” which is Locke.

Leibniz was a beautiful soul who was deeply cultured. He had a vision about how nations of the different continents could live together peacefully. The influence of Leibniz should be revived: Both in the United States and in Eurasia—because he had a very, very advanced conception about how countries could work together for the benefit of all of them.

Schlanger: Thanks to all of you for joining us. We’ll be back again next week. Any parting words?

Zepp-LaRouche: Get active with us! This is not a period when you should sit on the fence. This is a period when courageous actions of individuals working together for a good plan can, indeed, shape history for the better.