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This transcript appears in the April 29, 2022 issue of Executive Intelligence Review.

[Print version of this transcript]


A Major World Shake-Up Is Happening:
Let It Not Be World War III!

This is the edited transcript of the Schiller Institute’s April 20, 2022 dialogue with Helga Zepp-LaRouche. Subheads and embedded links have been added. A video of the webcast is available here.

Harley Schlanger: Hello, I’m Harley Schlanger. Welcome to our weekly webcast dialogue with Helga Zepp-LaRouche, founder and leader of the Schiller Institute. Today is Wednesday, April 20, 2022.

Schiller Institute April 9th Conference

It appears as though we’re moving into a new phase of the situation in Ukraine, with the Russians on the move. What is missing in the media is an alternative to war and chaos. But that was the subject of the Schiller Institute conference on April 9, to “Convoke an International Conference To Establish a New Security and Development Architecture.” Quite an extraordinary conference, and I think, Helga, it’s worth getting your impression of it to people, because this was really something that, in the absence of anyone else talking about solutions, we provided solutions.

Helga Zepp-LaRouche: Yes. I think this conference does represent a real breakthrough. We have put on the agenda, in a very serious way, the idea that we need a new international security and development architecture that must take into account the interests of every single nation on the planet, and that includes, emphatically, Russia, China and all the other nations in the world.

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Schiller Institute
Ambassador Anatoly Antonov

We were able to make that visible by the combination of speakers we assembled. We had very importantly, the first-ranking diplomat of Russia in the United States, Ambassador Anatoly Antonov, who made a very important speech. I think this is really important, because he expressed very clearly the importance he gave to the Schiller Institute as providing a platform for such discussion.

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Schiller Institute
Sam Pitroda

We had many other leading speakers: One of the co-organizers was Sam Pitroda, who is a very well-known Indian political figure. He was an adviser to the Rajiv Gandhi government, and he’s well known as an inventor in the IT branch in India. He spoke about the absolute need for having a complete redesign of the world in the tradition of the Non-Aligned Movement.

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Schiller Institute
Jay Naidoo

We had Mr. Jay Naidoo, who was a minister in the Mandela government in South Africa, who also brought in the view of the Non-Aligned Movement, and many, many other top speakers.

I would advise you to go to the Schiller website, where you can watch a 38-minute video with short segments of all the speeches, which will give you an impression of the scope of the conference.

We presented solutions: The idea to have a new international security architecture, in the tradition of the Peace of Westphalia and the kind of programmatic solution for a new world economic order based on development, with very concrete proposals.

And I think this is really important: Because you have now all kinds of people commenting on the situation in Ukraine, more weapons, more this, more that. But what is most needed is an organization, an institution that actually thinks about how to end this war. We see warmongers, like Sen. Chris Coons from Delaware, who opened the question of U.S. troops on the ground in Ukraine, which is a clear suicidal idea which would bring on World War III quite quickly. You have all these people, like Josep Borrell from the EU, von der Leyen, and unspeakable people I don’t even want to start characterizing, because I get extremely emotional about it, who are saying more weapons, more weapons; Russia must be prevented from winning the war—what does that mean? It means that you fight the war until the last Ukrainian, or until World War III.

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CC/Ralph Alswang
Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.) (above) broached the suicidal idea of having U.S. troops on the ground in Ukraine, while Josep Borrell Fontelles, Vice President of the European Commission (below), pumps for more weapons for Ukraine, with no intention to end the war.
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EP/Alain Rolland

We need a radically different approach, namely that we have to get to the negotiation table, the war has to be brought to an end. Every hour the war continues, is only at the disadvantage of the Ukrainian people. We have to have a viable architecture which will allow a solution to be reached. And that is what our conference provided. I encourage you to take the time, one evening or one weekend, and watch the whole program. You will find an absolutely amazing combination of people, agreeing with this approach. And we do not intend to stop with this conference. We are expanding the process of building an alliance of people who want to have a new paradigm.

Schlanger: And what’s clear is that if you want to have such an event occur, you need to have a very diverse group of speakers coming from different countries, different continents, but who share a common agreement that we can’t continue in the direction that we’re going. I think one of the interesting indications of the power of the event was the article in Politico, which talked about the isolation of the Russian Ambassador Antonov, but then noted that he spoke at the Schiller Institute conference.

Zepp-LaRouche: Yes. I think the Establishment is trying to isolate Russia, but we gave Ambassador Antonov a platform, which is not only reaching a lot of people inside the United States, but also internationally. So they were probably—I don’t know if they were more freaked out about Ambassador Antonov, or about the Schiller Institute, but in any case, it’s good that they’re worried.

An End to the Unipolar World

Schlanger: And one of the other indications that they’re worried is the April 16 article, “What Is at Stake in Ukraine,” in The Economist magazine, which talks about the realignment, and talks about something that you repeatedly bring up, that there are more people in more countries who are opposing the Anglo-American war drive than are supporting it. And I think this is quite interesting that this came out.

And at the same time, we’re seeing, finally, some people who are providing proper analysis of what’s going on militarily. Jacques Baud, you mentioned from Swiss intelligence, Georges Malbrunot from Le Figaro. Why don’t you give us a sense of where you think the inside battle in Ukraine is headed?

Zepp-LaRouche: Well, what people should be aware of is what nowadays is called “fake news.” That has been part of warfare for millennia. When you have a war, each side develops a narrative, to demoralize the other side, and remoralize their own ranks. That makes it very difficult for people who believe in the daily news reports. The news of the day, the daily news reporting, is for the most part the output of this information war. The RAND Corporation and many other think tanks have produced extensive studies on how to make information war an integral part of war fighting. Therefore, it is very important that now, more and more real military experts are speaking out. They are providing pieces of what leads to the truth.

For example, Jacques Baud, a Swiss security expert, provided some information which had come from Russian sources earlier, but he is now confirming it from a Swiss standpoint: That what really started the war was not Feb. 24th, with the Russian military intervention in Ukraine, but that from Feb. 17 onward, the Ukrainian army had increased by 30 times the attacks on the Donbas, shelling and artillery and various other military action. Putin was finally convinced that that was the offensive, and there was no other way than to engage in the combat as it occurred.

Then you have another important security expert Georges Malbrunot who writes for Le Figaro, who said that he had just come back from the front in Ukraine, and he saw with his own eyes, that British SAS and U.S. Delta Forces were in command of the fighting in Ukraine. Now, this is all very important information you don’t get when you just read newspapers or listen to TV news. It really shows that this is a war which has a completely different dimension. It’s not what the media say, that the “madman Putin” all of a sudden decided to conquer first Ukraine and then the rest of Europe. This is a completely different story: It is a war between those forces led by the British and United States, forces which have turned European nations into vassals; which are trying to maintain a unipolar world by conducting economic warfare against Russia, and in a certain sense China is also on the list; which want to prevent what they call a “multipolar world.”

The reality is this unipolar world does not exist anymore! It is gone! And what the media coverage is completely hiding is that there have been changes taking place, as President Xi Jinping keeps saying now, changes “as they have not occurred for 100 years.” And this is, indeed, very remarkable. What the sanctions against Russia have done, in the very short period of time since the war started, they have forced Russia to completely reorient—the partnership with China is being strengthened—but also India, Indonesia, South Africa, Nigeria, Pakistan; all of these countries do not want to have to choose. Half of the African countries have refused to take sides. There was supposed to be a meeting of 10 Southeast Asian countries which the United States named to be a top priority to take place. This has been postponed indefinitely for the same reason.

So, you have a few countries that are siding with the United States. In Japan, the new Prime Minister Fumio Kishida just copied the U.S. sanctions and applied them to Russia. In doing that, he has ruined the relationship between Japan and Russia, which had been improved over the last several years by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe. So that’s the only real change in the direction of the United States.

But you have a complete reorientation in the world. The United States has lost practically all influence in the Middle East. Saudi Arabia, the Emirates, other countries are orienting more in the direction of working with the SCO [Shanghai Cooperation Organization], with the BRICS [Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa]. The BRICS themselves are being revitalized. The relationship between Russia and India—India is refusing to bend to the pressure to break relations with Russia. A new currency is developing: The trust in the dollar is disappearing to the extent that the U.S. is confiscating the assets of other countries. The U.S. did that with Afghanistan, with $9 billion; then with $300 billion of Russian assets. Now many countries are saying, maybe it’s not so safe to keep your assets in dollars. Many nations are moving to have more trade in the national currencies, and that is developing into a de-dollarized alternative financial system.

Now, these are all changes which are caused, uniquely, by the policy of the West. And that is a backlash which people are not thinking about! This is a complete destruction of the world order which existed in the post WWII period, or even in the post-Soviet era. There is a complete change unfolding. And that should be the discussion: How do we find a solution which prevents this multipolarity from going into a new geopolitical confrontation, which would then end with World War III. And that’s what we tried to discuss with our conference.

The Fundamental Nature of the Battle

Schlanger: While we’re seeing these changes around the world, which are quite visible if you know where to look, we’re seeing the same line coming out, still, coming out from the NATO forces. Biden is promising more weapons; Ursula von der Leyen, Josep Borrell constantly are saying we need more weapons. And saying opening that there is no intention to end the war. This is part of the situation that’s emerging, which is causing the realignment, isn’t it?

Zepp-LaRouche: Yes. I think the attitude of the people you named, Borrell, von der Leyen, Röttgen, this FDP Bundestag member Marie-Agnes Strack-Zimmermann, they are warhawks who seem to have only one thing in mind, to drive Russia into bankruptcy, to completely turn Europe into a military union. But this is not the future. I think that the West is in an economic collapse right now. Look at the inflation figures: They were on the rise before, but now you have a situation of inflation in Germany: in producer prices in March more than 30%; energy prices almost 85%. We have growing famine in the world.

And if people think this situation can be settled with weapons and with military means—I think the countries I named before, the countries assembling around China, India, Russia, have a completely different orientation, and are making friends by addressing the questions which are of concern to them: infrastructure, food, medicine, and these things. The Western powers are really on a wrong footing, by thinking that they can bully people into agreeing to their “values-based order,” of the Western liberal model, which people are starting to think through.

I got reports today that even in Germany, people we meet at information tables and other occasions, are having second thoughts because the war propaganda no longer is making sense. For example, the Pope said that the way the West is treating the refugees as a two-class system, in which the Ukrainian refugees are being given everything they need, but the other, dark-skinned refugees are being treated like nobody. I got reports that in Germany, in some of the refugee facilities, where Afghan refugees had been living in part, some for the last five years, and were finally finding jobs, learning the language, adjusting their qualification in the German system so they could really start to build up an existence—they’re being kicked out right now, to make room for the Ukrainians! This is terrible for these people from Afghanistan. What have they gone through?

So, when the Pope says this is racism, I think that does not go unnoticed. There is now discussion growing that the conflict in the world is not between democracies and so-called autocratic states, but rather it is between the former colonialist powers and those countries that were victims of that colonialist system. And the victims of colonial exploitation do not want to have that system any longer. There has been complete misrepresentation of the actual questions of importance in the world for the majority of world’s people. And I think it’s backfiring in a big way! Unfortunately, it is not only backfiring against the elites in the trans-Atlantic world, but it is also hitting the people of those countries as well.

Schlanger: You mentioned the fight between the colonialist system and those nations that were part of the Non-Aligned, the anti-colonialist movement. One of the battlegrounds for this, that you’re very familiar with, is India. Biden made efforts to talk to Modi, to bring him in line with the sanctions policy against Russia. U.S. Secretary of State Blinken, all sorts of State Department officials, and now Boris Johnson is headed to India. But it seems as though what we’re seeing from India is an assertion of independence, non-alignment, and a willingness to work toward this new financial system. And this brings up the question of your husband’s idea of the Four Powers. I wonder if you’d like to say something about that?

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DoD/R.D. Ward
Yevgeny Primakov, Russia’s Foreign Minister (1996-98), and Prime Minister (1998-99), developed the famous “strategic triangle” concept.

Zepp-LaRouche: My husband, Lyndon LaRouche, was convinced for a very long time, that this is not a battle among nations. This is between the oligarchy, the financial powers in the City of London and Wall Street (and you could add Silicon Valley to that), and the interest of the people. So, it’s not between the United States and Russia, or even Europe—it’s really this question of oligarchy versus the common good. And that is why he said you needed a powerful combination of countries that could resist the pressures from this oligarchy. And he, at the time, said that it should be a combination of Russia, China, and India—this was the famous “strategic triangle” which was developed by Russian Prime Minister Primakov, who developed that as a counter to the policies coming from the United States and the British at that time—but my husband emphatically said it should include the United States, and the United States should work with these countries, because you need a solution for the world.

And unfortunately, right now, that does not seem very likely. Biden is in a confrontation mode. He was one of the architects of the NATO expansion. He was the point-person for the Obama administration in the Ukraine developments in 2014. It is very interesting that the former Italian armed forces Chief of Staff Gen. Marco Bertolini said that if Hillary Clinton had won the election in 2016, the war against Ukraine would have happened then. And interestingly, he also said that given the fact that the entire Black Sea surveillance and military operations are conducted from Sicily—I think the air base is called Sigonella—he thinks that the U.S. drones had a big role in the sinking of the Russian cruiser Moskva. Which if that were true, is really very close to crossing the red line. It would mean the military involvement of the United States. We could have a war between Russia and NATO and the U.S. very, very quickly. If this red line has not been crossed, we are getting very close to it.

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USAF/Ramon A. Adelan
Drones now play a significant role in military conflicts. Here, a U.S. RQ-4 Global Hawk unmanned surveillance and reconnaissance aerial vehicle takes off in Italy.

But I think this is all a question of whether we can mobilize enough people inside the United States and Europe, who understand that the only outcome of such a policy is World War III! What is happening, de facto right now, is that the strategic triangle of Russia, India, and China, and all the other countries I had named before, are already moving into an alternative system. And the big question is, can we convince enough thinking people in the United States, in particular, but also in European nations, to understand that—we have to live together a hundred years from now! The idea to “crush Russia,” this obsession, can only lead to the destruction of all of humanity.

We have to find people who are willing to say: “We have so many problems, we have world famine, we have a pandemic which is not finished, we have a collapsing trans-Atlantic financial system, why don’t we work together and develop the future of humanity?” I’m sometimes surprised that there are not more people in the so-called “advanced sector” (which is not so advanced at all anymore), who are not giving it some thought. We have to think in terms of how to shape the future, and not just follow someone’s hatred and Russophobia and Sinophobia. Look at our April 9 conference. Give it a second thought. Is it not a better idea to choose diplomacy and choose negotiation, and find a way where we all can live together on this planet?

Schlanger: One of the common bases in moving in this direction, is for Americans to remember that the American Revolution was an anti-colonialist movement, and that it was supported by a number of European countries that wanted to put an end to the British Empire at the end of the 18th century. And this seems to be something that people have forgotten in the mobilization to “crush Russia.”

Now, this brings me to a question I get from a lot of people, some of whom saw the conference, and now are saying, where do we go from here? How do we get this international conference to convene to set up a new strategic and financial architecture? Helga, what are the plans ahead for doing this, besides people watching the video and spreading it, and making sure that others are brought onboard?

Zepp-LaRouche: First of all, we have to build this process as a real movement. We have to do outreach. We have to make sure that this conception is becoming known: outreach to all parliaments of all nations of the world, to all think tanks, to all university faculties, to all kinds of social organizations. We can catalyze the initiation of such a conference, which must be done by governments.

I’m absolutely convinced that as the situation will become more tumultuous. Look at the United States, which is completely polarized. There is such a great discrepancy between what the average person has as their interest; look at farmers, look at truckers, look at the various groups of people, the medical profession. What the establishment, especially Wall Street, is prescribing is not in the interest of the American people.

In the same way, the present total capitulation in Germany; it’s not “total,” but 95% capitulation you see in Germany. Germany is selling out its oil, its interest: Look at what they did with Nord Stream 2. This is absolutely in the existential interest of Germany to have energy security by importing gas from Russia. Now it has been given up. Now they are making a witchhunt against anybody who ever—I mean who ever had the idea of positive relations with Russia, or at least diplomatic relations with Russia—is being absolutely ostracized. And there are calls for their ouster. This infamous MP Norbert Röttgen is now demanding that the Minister-President of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern Manuela Schwesig [SPD] be ousted, simply because she was in favor of Nord Stream 2. And this kind of a witch hunt does not really express the interest of the German people.

The security interest of Germany is not to be separated from Russia! This was the expressed policy-goal of some in the United States and the UK for a hundred years or longer! This has been stated by several Anglo-American strategists, that the long-term strategy of the United States is to separate Germany and Russia. And they have practically succeeded in doing that. Is that in the interest of Germany? No, absolutely not!

Who knows what will happen in the French election this coming Sunday, April 24? If Marine Le Pen wins, we could have completely different situation, because she says there must be rapprochement between Europe and Russia, which is right. Unfortunately, she’s anti-Chinese, and wants to split Russia and China, which is again, falling into the trap of geopolitics. But we are in for a turmoil and people should not think that we get through this year without major, dramatic developments—inflation going out of control, the famine having social effects all over the world.

So the demand for our approach, for a conference in the tradition of the Peace of Westphalia will grow, and hopefully we will be able to put it on the table for good, which means that it has to be evoked by a majority of the governments of the world.

Join the Schiller Institute

Schlanger: Well, those of you who wish to be a part of this, I would recommend two steps: First, go to the Schiller Institute website and watch the April 9 conference. Study it, pass it around, and discuss it. And then, secondly, join the Schiller Institute. We are building a movement, we are pulling together people from every continent, from every country, and we’re talking about the real thinkers, the people who can move the population around these more profound ideas. Because what Helga just laid out is a profound idea! Changing the direction from utter destruction, into a potential for a new paradigm. Helga, anything else you want to add?

Zepp-LaRouche: I think—try to be inner-directed. Try to become a truth-seeking person. Don’t fall for the narratives which are being sold to you. Do some work; do some studying of history. Find out what was the pre-history of this war in Ukraine. Start with what happened in 1990, with the promises given to Gorbachev not to extend NATO to the East. This is not a narrative fabricated by Russia, this did happen: We have documented it. There are many people—Genscher, the foreign minister of Germany, is on the tape, and you can listen to these things. But spend some time to become an independent thinker, I think that is the most important, and then you will end up automatically with us!

Schlanger: Well, in this Year of LaRouche, being an independent thinker is the best thing one can do.

Helga, thanks for joining us this week, and we’ll see you again soon.

Zepp-LaRouche: Hopefully next week!

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