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This interview appears in the August 27, 2010 issue of Executive Intelligence Review.

The Game Is Over: He's Out;
The `Indian Sign' Is on Obama

Lyndon LaRouche was the special guest on the LPAC-TV Weekly Report Aug. 18, hosted by John Hoefle, and joined by EIR Counterintelligence Editor Jeffrey Steinberg.

[PDF version of this interview]

John Hoefle: So, Lyn, what do you have on the agenda, today?

Lyndon LaRouche: We have a situation, in which the dumping of this President is clearly in process. The dumping is not secure, either in general fact, or in timing. But, the word has been out since the middle of this past week: "The Indian sign is up. He's out." When, and how, is still to be decided.

One of the factors in this, is that, as of the middle of last week, a phase-shift occurred, partly by virtue of the policy of the current Administration, or at least people like [Treasury Secretary Tim] Geithner and so forth, who have set into motion, a hyperinflationary program, comparable to what was done in Germany, before the Nazis, in the famous hyperinflation of 1923. Now, what was done in Germany is notable, and the comparison is extremely important for people to understand today. At that point, Germany was targetted for this operation, this rape operation, within its own borders. And a French occupation of the Rhineland aggravated the problem acutely. So this started a hyperinflationary explosion in Germany, from the Spring into the October-November period, the most famous hyperinflation in modern history.

We face a similar situation now, and I say "similar," because the difference is, in the case of 1923 Germany, the hyperinflation was confined to one country. It was actually within the borders of that country, and it was by an occupying, military power, the Anglo-French power. Today, the hyperinflation is global.

And one other feature: It can not be compared with the hyperinflationary crisis in Japan [in the late 1980s]. Because, then, Japan was not an international economy. In other words, the point is, a hyperinflation of this type can only occur within the bounds of the political grounds of an economy, because money is a political entity; it is not a measure of value as such, it's a political entity. And it's whatever the territorial area is, of that political unit, is affected. All right, so, Japan is Japan: Japan is, politically, Japan. So that Japan hyperinflation arising from the carry trade, was not a global factor. It affected the planetary system, but it was not a global factor.

Today, we have a global factor of hyperinflation. We are in a hyperinflationary mode, comparable to what struck Germany in the Spring and Summer of 1923. However, this time, it's on a global scale, and it's not the tight effect that you would have in a Weimar Germany. But, it is comparable to the German hyperinflation, otherwise. But it's on a global scale, because the global scale is defined, as you know.

Since 1971-72, the United States' dollar has been subject to the British Empire. That is, when we lifted the fixed-exchange-rate system, under conditions created by the Vietnam War on the U.S. economy—under these conditions, and with the launching, by Lord Jacob Rothschild, of the Inter-Alpha Group, what happened, is that the United States economy became implicitly a subject of this new group, which now represents over 70% of the world's monetary activity, including hyperinflationary stuff.

So therefore, the hyperinflation is occurring inside the Anglo-American area, with emphasis on Anglo, because of the Inter-Alpha Group, because more than 70%, of the world financial markets are controlled by this one area, and the hyperinflation is now occurring, especially in that area. It spills off into other parts of the world as a whole, but the primary locus of the hyperinflation is the Anglo-American sector, that is, Wall Street, as, actually, a British colonial power occupying the United States, essentially.

So that has to be understood. So don't expect something exactly like Germany, before the Nazis, which led to the Nazis, of course; but expect this kind of adjustment.

But as of now, the United States is in a hyperinflationary mode, under the policies of Geithner, and Geithner's associates. So, what happened, in two days during this past week, you had the impact of the fact that the United States was going into a hyperinflationary commitment, under Geithner, under Geithner's direction, which means the present Administration's direction. So, at that point, you had mass speculation, in two days of last week, which is a tip-off of that change. Then, you get, on the weekend, as typified by what came out of the British press, on Monday [Aug. 15], is, you now get a reaction declaring, "The game is over." The hyperinflationary mode has struck; doom is inevitable, and get ready.

In this context, suddenly, the oars are out, for the great ship to go down the ocean of hyperinflation—unless we change it.

A Short-Term Interval

Therefore, we now have a very short-term interval available to us, I would say, in the coming months, the two months, three months from now. And then, the game would be over. So, what we have now, is, we have about a 30-day period, in which the President, at least as planned now, is going to be out of the game. He is going to be on Martha's Vineyard, and who knows where else? Raising grapes, or rapes, or whatever he does. And so, the sign is out: The game is over, hyperinflation is here. People are running scared on the money markets, knowing that the hyperinflation is here. And Obama is probably being trajectoried out.

Now, how that's going to work is not certain. I have various stories as to how this might work out; different people have different views on the matter. But the fact is, if we don't get rid of Obama from the Presidency, now, within the 30 days, or 60 days at most, before us, that is, well before the November elections, if we don't get Obama out, we have lost the United States, and the world goes into a hyperinflationary explosion.

That is the choice. Obama will not change. Obama is a mental case, of a special kind, and he will not change. He's like the Emperor Nero, and he's like Adolf Hitler: They will go down to the end, until somebody removes them. And somebody has to remove this guy. Now, the question is: How are we going to get him removed? We can not allow to have him killed; he has to be protected. But, the game is over. And anyone who thinks that politics-as-usual is available to them—they are nuts.

There has to be a radical change. There has to be, essentially, a sudden, very sudden change. And the change is, again, to repeat, for those who don't know: The first thing to do, is—Obama out. You can not do anything, until you've got Obama out. You can set into place, things which we will do, when Obama is out. But you can't do a thing: This guy is what he is. He will cling to his position. He will not change his policy, willfully, unless somebody puts a drug into him and hypnotizes him, or something like that, and gets him to say things he would never say willingly, otherwise.

Jeff Steinberg: Hijack his teleprompter.

LaRouche: That wouldn't work any more. The teleprompter is also brainwashed.

So, that's the issue, right now. And there are several things that can be done, to do this:

The first thing, which has already occurred. First, you have the explicit actions, which were signaled from Britain, and other places, but essentially from Britain, that the game is over. And, at the same time, a signal from Wall Street, and from the European markets, especially the British markets: The hyperinflationary phase has been entered. And you had two days last week, where you got this wild speculation, which is a reflection of knowledge. Then you got the Monday breakout in the British press and elsewhere, indicating that the hyperinflationary breakdown is on.

So, that's where we stand. Anybody who thinks there is something different than that, is being very foolish. And we see also, the fact that Obama has suddenly been inspired to join the former governor of the state of Illinois [Rod Blagojevich], and to join him in, shall we say, a quasi-retirement, for a period of time, until a more decisive disposition has been adopted, that is, to get him out, one way or the other. So, that's where we are.

Obama Out, Glass-Steagall, NAWAPA

Now, the sequence that has to be taken, is of course, of the utmost importance: The first thing that has to be accomplished, is, Obama out of the Presidency. At least, de facto, out of the Presidency, where he no longer controls policy in any degree. And Geithner, of course, his "little boy," is going to have to find new toys to play with.

But then, the first thing we have to do, is re-install Glass-Steagall, exactly as Roosevelt defined it in 1933, an exact copy of 1933. That means that the entire banking system, the merchant banking system and similar things, go under Federal protection. Because, by cancelling the entire speculative market, which is what happens when you apply Glass-Steagall, the banks that remain, under Federal protection, are not solvent. They have to be given government protection, so they are not put into insolvency, until we can straighten the mess out. Because they don't have the assets to cover their deficits, even that portion. So therefore, they have to go into Federal protection.

And it would have been a lot easier, if the idiots had not interfered with my Homeowners and Bank Protection Act in 2007. We could have avoided all this nonsense. But they did it, and it was Barney Frank and company who led the charge on that. So, it's their fault. If it's a problem, go tell Barney Frank that his services are no longer wanted, and he will cry, or he will do something like that.

So therefore, we have to put them under protection, the whole banking system, the Federal system.

We then, knowing that the Federal government is now suddenly relieved, from the implications of the funny-money system—in other words, all this funny-money stuff, financial derivatives and so forth, is simply cancelled. The nation takes no responsibility, for paying any debts of this nature. They are gambling debts: "Ya lost, buddy! It's a gambling debt. We don't cover gambling debts! We cover legal, proper obligations, conforming to our Constitutional standard."

Therefore, since the government would then be freed of these gambling debts, which are being enforced by Geithner and company, we then are able to issue Federal credit from the U.S. government. This credit would largely go into supplying credit for the use of national banking; that is, for the commercial banking system, and national banking institutions. This money, which is put in there, which will show a throughput of credit, which will put the banks, at least, formally, under law, into stable operations. They will not be treated as bankrupt. They will be treated under reorganization, so they will have a mass of money, all of the decent, Federal types of banks, Federal and state, which have conformed to Glass-Steagall.

That money will then have to be focussed on a number of things, but one thing that has to be done, absolutely: We must put through—which we are now working on, and we will have in the coming two weeks—we will have more and more public information uttered by us on this, on the actual design, for an installation of a NAWAPA program.[1]

Now, this will mean that we will be employing—within a very short period of time, once Obama is out—we will be employing, under this provision, millions of skilled people, either scientists, or related categories, or highly skilled trades. And we will probably be employing, in the NAWAPA project, very rapidly, about 3 or 4 million people. That is our first estimate. When you take the total territory, this is, in some sense comparable to what Franklin Roosevelt did quite successfully, in 1933, with the Tennessee Valley Authority. This is a much bigger operation, and it will have a great global effect, and it will have reverberations throughout the world.

This means, that we will be taking this area, and we will be changing the rainfall patterns, inside the United States, because this project, once installed—and it will be a process of installation and development—in the meantime, will probably employ about 3 million people, directly, as productive elements of this process.

And we have the people there, ready to be hired. All we have to do, is get some laws through to make sure this thing works; but once we have done that little technical job, we have 3 million highly skilled people, not people doing imitation work jobs, paper clip jobs, but people who are really skilled, highly productive, and we will have about 3 million of them employed; employed on the basis of the utterance of Federal credit, under a Federal law, which generates the basis for that credit.

Now, the banking system, the merchant banking system, will now go into functioning, and the biggest stimulus will be this. And you are talking about a 30- to 50-year-term investment.

Now, you could take the rate of employment which has occurred, the actual unemployment—what they do now, is they shoot people who run out of their 99th week of [unemployment benefits].

Steinberg: "99 and out."

LaRouche: Yeah, 99, out, and dead. 99 and dead.

Reversing the Depression

Suddenly, we stop that nonsense: We count the labor force as the labor force, not those whom the Federal government, by some cheating scheme, chooses to recognize as the labor force. People who actually would like to have jobs, would like to have decent employment! They are the labor force! If they are willing and able to work, they are the labor force.

Now, you take the couple million jobs which have been lost, largely due to Bush and Obama, and you are going to put a 3-million-job employment of the highest skills, and the rates of pay that these people command, just for the normal work that they do, you have suddenly reversed the depression, within a matter of weeks. And that is what it takes. We not only need a reform of our system, we need some action that corresponds to the implementation of that reform.

Now, what would happen then? Once we do that, we have a situation, with Russia and some other countries, which have similar projects in mind.

And the other aspect of this, is the water problem: Since Teddy Roosevelt was President, we have destroyed the development of the United States territory. In other words, the territory from the 20-inch-rainfall line in the Western states (Figure 1), to the mountain ranges on the coast of the Pacific—that whole area has never been developed in any honest way. It is still a desert land. We have been draining the water from the aquifers, underneath the prairie land, and we are now sinking the land level, by taking the water out! And we are exhausting the water resources, to maintain our agricultural system!

Now, not only by putting this system in, will we stop that, we will stop draining—which is a crucial problem—our underground water resources. We will then be generating, as the program works—and we are talking about decades—we will be increasing the amount of evaporation, caused by the throughput of water, through trees and leafy shrubbery, and so forth. You are now suddenly changing the character of this whole area, which is a desert area. Rapidly, this desert area is going to become a richly developed area. And you have a factor of 2.7 times—the moisture that you run through the NAWAPA project, will give you 2.7 times the moisture falling on the territory of the United States as a whole—and Canada, they both benefit—and to a lesser degree, a part of Mexico.

So you are creating—for every drop of water that you conserve through NAWAPA, you are getting the equivalent of 2.7 drops of water, in the rainfall patterns going from west to east, across the United States territory. Whereas now, you are changing the character, by going to green! And that means you have to rip up and destroy the solar collectors, which are a waste of money, and they are ecologically stupid. Because every territory you tear up to put in solar collectors out there, you are destroying the fertility of the land-area. So, the first thing you have to do, for conservation purposes, you have to rip up the solar collectors, which are the greatest threat to agriculture ever invented. It's insane! ...

So, in this case, we are going to, essentially, we are going to a real green policy! And the green policy, is taking the desert and making it bloom. That means, on the mountains where conservation is developing forest areas, in areas which are maintaining the water system; wheat is a mistake in a sense. We need wheat grain, but wheat is a mistake, because from an ecological standpoint, we want leafy vegetables. Wheat is very inefficient in vapor transmission, and we need vapor transmission, now. That means we want, essentially, trees, shrubbery—we want grasses, of course; we want wheat of course, but the emphasis, from an ecological standpoint, has to be on trees and leafy vegetables.

Which means a highly diversified agriculture. What we have done with agriculture in the Western Plains is idiotic. The whole thing of just cutting down the hedgerows, and growing wheat all over the place, according to the "Monsanto law," which has now taken over and subordinated the supreme law of the nation. We have to go back to hedgerows, to a traditional agricultural system, in the sense of—large-scale, yes; high-technology, yes, but we want green: We want leafy vegetables, we want trees and hedgerows, we want all the things that go with a good system of taking the moisture, which we are saving from just flooding directly into the Pacific and into the Arctic Ocean, we are taking that moisture, we are putting it in this system, and we are organizing it, so you don't have dry spells. You've got a buffer: You are taking the average amount of water you are going to get through the entire system, you are conserving it; you are putting it through an area where you are growing trees, you are growing other things. You are developing the green, and developing the green in this area, which is one of the largest areas in the world for development: And that water that is going through there, 2.7 times the amount will come down as rainfall on the whole territory of the United States.

So that's our perspective.

And we also, of course, are going into space. Now, people may not understand what space is, and this President certainly does not understand space. He has got a lot of space in his head someplace, but I don't think there's anything there, otherwise, just empty space, not for rent. But that's where we stand.

That's what our perspective is, right now.

So therefore, number one: Obama out. You want to save the United States? Obama out! If you do not get Obama out, you don't give a damn about the United States. It has to happen. Because the man is a madman. He will not change, he will not adjust. He really is a Nazi, in terms of his policies, his health-care policies, these other things—just like Hitlerian policies. So, that has to end.

Large-Scale Infrastructure To Develop the World

Now, we have to have Glass-Steagall: We have to now integrate other countries, which will be our partners in this deal, and that includes Europe, it includes a program for Africa, and without large-scale infrastructure in Africa, you are not going to do anything good for Africa. And that is an obvious problem. The whole continent's a mess, because of this problem, mismanagement—largely British. The British actually run Africa. If you find something bad in Africa, blame the British, they are to blame, the British Empire.

We have large-scale projects in Russia, available, in the Vernadsky Institute. But, what is required is, the whole of Siberia, the northern area, contains very large mineral deposits. These mineral deposits are indispensable, for countries to the south of that, including China, India, and so forth, which have poorer mineral deposits in their land area. Remember, that India has 1.1 billion people, China 1.5 billion people, in a congestion, which is about three, four times our land area. They have very limited resources there. They are developing an infrastructure, but it's not developed yet, it's not reaching enough of the whole population. So therefore, we have to have a development period, in which international credit is focussed, to ensure that countries like India, and especially China, are able to move up.

And we are going to have to develop water systems, we're going to have to develop mineral systems, and a lot of this is going to require the development of this large territory which was once part of the Soviet Union, of the Asian part of the Soviet Union. And that territory is going to have to be developed, for mineral resources and similar kinds of things, which will then flow down, to sustain the southern part of the Asian area

This will mean we are setting up an international system. Because, with a Bering Strait project, and with the development from Europe into Africa, we can launch an infrastructure development program with these areas, which will solve the problem there. It's a long-term project. But, without infrastructure, of the type that nobody allows in Africa today—and any country in Africa that tries to develop and infrastructure project now, such as Sudan, is going to be crushed, by the British!

The British do not allow development; the British are the greatest genocidalists in the world. They do not allow any development of any significance in Africa. Any country in Africa, that is actually developing independently, which is not raping its own people, that they can get by with—they will destroy the country! They will overthrow the government—as the British are planning to overthrow the government of Sudan! It's a typical case of genocide, done by the British. And that comes to an end.

So, we can have a plan for an immediate development of the world economy over the coming century, based on using the NAWAPA program, as a fulcrum to coordinate with developments in Asia, to coordinate to develop the Americas. We have this Darien Strait problem, but with that, getting the transportation system through there into South America, means that South America, which is an impossible problem in many respects now, can be developed.

So we can develop the Americas, we can develop Eurasia, we can develop Africa, which is the greatest part of the land-mass area of the world. And this can be a program, which is a key cornerstone for us, over the coming remainder of this century. It means three generations of our people are going to go through an upgrade in transformation.

In the meantime, we start, as I proposed, and include not only a Glass-Steagall standard of credit, but also a fixed-exchange-rate system: Then we have a system, a global system of sovereign nation-states, in cooperation, using large-scale projects in infrastructure, to further this. And we can say, the remainder of this century can be secure, as a century of progress for mankind. Whereas, under Obama, if we were to continue Obama as President, exactly the opposite effect is inevitable: a dark age.

The Real History of Mankind

Hoefle: Well, what the Obama Administration is doing, with Geithner and Bernanke, they are basically printing money like mad, to try to save the Inter-Alpha system.

LaRouche: It appears that way; but that is not the motive. People do not know history. They may know history in a sense of a schoolbook sense, or in a sense of a political history, but they don't know the real history of mankind. It's not discussed. There is too much of this green philosophy of the other type available.

The objective of empire—and we are talking about maritime empire, which started actually in the Mediterranean, in the aftermath of the fall of the Persian Empire, in which you had a maritime power develop imperial power. First, it was in the Mediterranean, and then there was a shift, which is what the British system means, a shift to the Atlantic. So, from 1492 on, especially from the beginning of the 17th Century, there was a shift in power, of imperial power, from the Mediterranean-centered imperial power, into the Atlantic-centered imperial power, and the absorption of the Pacific area into the Atlantic area. This was the shift, which moved the capital of international imperial finance from Venice, as such, into a Venetian colony, called London.

London, the British system of imperialism, is not something specific to the United Kingdom. The people of the United Kingdom and Ireland, are a completely different thing than this empire. The empire is essentially located in a Venetian-style financial power, centered on London.

But London—it's really a Venetian system, in which Venice, from 1000 A.D. on, was the center of power, of the Mediterranean imperial system. With the development of the maritime traffic in the Atlantic Ocean, and the exposure into the Indian Ocean and the Pacific, maritime power was now shifted to the Atlantic region, and therefore, there was the movement from the continental political capital for imperialism, to London. And London is simply the residence, across the English Channel, which is the dividing line, which controls the world. That is, about 70% of the world's banking is controlled by the Rothschild and similar groups. But you have to recognize that Wall Street and U.S. banking, is also controlled by the British, as you can see, in the way this thing functions now.

So, that is where the problem lies. The imperialism is, if you want to have an empire, in which you have a ruling class, which rules the world, perpetually, you have to keep people stupid. Because only stupid people would put up with that! So, therefore, what you need to do, is, you plan to reduce the level of technology—that's what the green movement is! Keep people stupid! And then they are not a threat to the empire. This is the thesis of Aeschylus' trilogy, the Prometheus trilogy: That they want to keep people stupid. Don't allow them to know anything; don't allow them to know science and technology. Keep them stupid, and then you can manage them for the empire.

And the objective now, as you see in the case of England, in terms of the policies of Prince Philip: the policy of eliminating technology, eliminating progress, and making people stupid. But if you make people stupid, they are less productive. So therefore, Prince Philip and his friend, the former Nazi SS man Prince Bernhard, came up with this program, of the World Wildlife Fund. And the purpose of the World Wildlife Fund, which is the same thing as Bertrand Russell's policy, is: People must be kept stupid.

And if you are going to keep them stupid, you can not maintain a population of 7 billion people. You have to reduce it to less than 2 billion. And what you have with Obama, with Obama's health-care policy, which is a copy of Hitler's health-care policy, a copy of Tony Blair's health-care policy, and then, imported into the United States, is, Nazism! Is, keep the people stupid. And keep the population size down to the level where people are stupid, work for dirt wages, and then the empire can persist.

Intelligent people, who are capable of understanding how a world system works, understand why we need nation-states, based on language groups. They must be eliminated, is what the intent is. So, all these other things, are not the intent of greed, money greed. Money greed is there, but money greed is not the motive for this thing, and people who try to explain this in terms of money greed, do not understand it.

Since the collapse of the Persian Empire, and since the Peloponnesian War, you had the rise of maritime imperialism, which was then centered in the Mediterranean, until 1492, when the break into the Atlantic region occurred. And you have in this process, a movement, over the period of religious warfare, from 1492 to 1648, you had a movement of the center of power, away from the Mediterranean Sea, into the maritime area of the Atlantic, and from the Atlantic, into the Pacific and Indian Oceans.

So, imperialism is that. Imperialism is not one nation trying to absorb other nations. Imperialism is an international system, on which a monetary system, runs the world. And manages the world in a way which keeps the population stupid enough, that you can not maintain today's level of population; you have got to back to less than 2 billion people. So, it's a policy of genocide. The green movement, so-called, the windmills, the solar panels, is a policy of genocide. It's a continuation of Hitler's movement.

Population Control and Brainwashing

Steinberg: Of course, back in the '40s, people like Bertrand Russell and Julian Huxley, were very explicit that they launched the "environmentalist conservation" movement, because the real name for it, which was "eugenics" and "genocide," had been made unpopular, for the time being, by Hitler. They themselves are absolutely explicit, that this is nothing but a movement for massive population reduction.

LaRouche: Take the case of the Harriman family. The Harriman family was one of the authors of these Nazi-like policies inside the United States. Population control, and brainwashing control. So, Harriman was a chief ally of the Bank of England, through Brown Brothers, Harriman. And Brown Brothers was the same thing as the Bank of England crowd: They are the people that brought Hitler into power! The only reason the British ever had a quarrel with Hitler, was that, as they have said clearly—at the point that a French fascist government made a deal with a Wehrmacht, so that a superior French force caved in to a Blitzkrieg by an inferior German force at the time! At that point, Churchill screamed! "We've been—!" You know what.

So, he screamed, to the man he hated the most on the planet, Franklin Roosevelt, and said, "Save us!" So that the British suddenly abandoned their alliance with Hitler—the French fascists, also, were part of the allies of Hitler at that point, already—they abandoned that, and screamed to the United States, to save the British power! And thought that by getting us to save the British power, the British could then "handle" us, as they had a number of times in the past. And that's the way this thing works. That's the operation.

Steinberg: And unfortunately, with the death of Roosevelt, that orientation towards handling the United States became more and more of the dominant fact of life, in terms of American politics for the last 60 years.

LaRouche: Right. It was already clear, because, once we had broken through, in the invasion of Normandy, once these Allied forces—really, chiefly the United States—had conquered this, the German military command knew, "Well, we are" you-know-what, "and we have to negotiate peace now." Hitler got wind of it, and got a list of the generals, from—

Steinberg: From the British.

LaRouche: The British: The British exposed the plan of the generals to negotiate a peace. The British did not want a peace: So they killed the generals!

Steinberg: And extended the war by another year.

LaRouche: Exactly, virtually another year, at that point. And that was their intention!

Now, at that point, if you look at the United States, during the time, up until the Normandy success, the British had kept their skunks, and Wall Street skunks, and similar kinds of fascist bastards, they kept them under control, for the sake of winning the war—but not too soon, was their intention. Once they knew that victory over Germany, that Hitler was finished, that it had been secured, then, the policies inside the United States changed! And Roosevelt, who was triumphant up to that point, suddenly found himself [up against] the fascists of Wall Street, the same guys that had put Hitler into power, like Averell Harriman and company: Averell Harriman put Hitler into power, through George W. Bush's grandfather!

So, at that point, they came back into their fascist mode. And Truman was forced upon Roosevelt by this crowd, by the Wall Street crowd.... The minute Roosevelt died, the United States changed; but it had already changed, with Truman's nomination, at the Democratic Party Convention, as Vice President, which was forced on Roosvelt. So, at that point, the unfortunate fact of Roosevelt's death—Churchill moved in, and the entire Roosevelt post-war program was scrapped, immediately! And the British program, the British re-imperializing of the planet, was put into place. And since that time, Wall Street has always been an agent of the British monarchy. It is not an agency of the United States. And therefore, if those scum go bankrupt as a result of purging the system, I will weep nothing over their grave; I have no tears at all.

And so, the problem is, that we have to recognize that, and therefore, we have to clean this nest out of our society.

And then, by a fixed-exchange-rate system among sovereign nations, we can actually, successfully maneuver through the rest of this century. That is possible. And I know now, from what I know now from contacts and so forth that I'm dealing with, from some of the discussions we've had, I know that we have the combination of political power available, which, brought together in the right way—say, with getting rid of Obama, and putting something else in his place; just any good President will do, you do not have to have the greatest genius—if you have the kind of agreement that we need, among Russia, China, India, and the United States and other countries, we can put together a system, very quickly, which will save the world from what otherwise has no solution.

And once we've got that into motion, we've got to be smart enough, as Benjamin Franklin said: You have a republic, or a system of republics: Now you've got to keep it.

Steinberg: Right. And, as you have emphasized in the last few days, the first step has to come from here. We have to win this Obama fight, as the first, necessary precondition, for everything else happening. Because, Russia, China, India, Germany, simply left to their own devices, without the United States as the driver for this kind of policy change, can't do it on their own.

LaRouche: Well, you've got to look at the land-area of Eurasia, and look at the population of Eurasia. You've got the votes there! And the reception I'm getting, indicates that this is not pie in the sky. This is something that, simply by the removal of the President from office, as a mental case—and he is a mental case—he is removed from office as a mental case, and put under protection, because we don't want anything to happen to him. We don't want any distractions, by his being assassinated or something. We want him safely tucked away someplace, where he can do no harm, and suffer no harm. It's a condition: And our doing that, and maintaining that principle, will be a great assistance, essential to our success, in reorganizing a reform.

The Lessons of the Trojan War

Hoefle: If you look at the Inter-Alpha Group, really, the whole project is to destroy nation-states, so that the empire can regain control of the world. But it's not really just the financial side of it, but, it's a trap. It's a giant trap, to create globalization, and these giant cartels, and all these other things, which actually replace nation-states.

LaRouche: I think that the danger here, is, people think that monetary interest is the thing that motivates this. That is a great mistake. Monetarism is an expression of this problem, but it is not the source of the problem. The source of the problem is exactly what Aeschylus warned about, particularly the Prometheus trilogy; and the lessons of the Trojan War, which he also addressed. This sort of thing. These lessons: It is imperialism as such.

What you have, is, you have a caste of people, who believe in a social system, in which the few dominate and exploit the many, and keep them stupid. And that is the issue. The monetary motive is exaggerated, because, the monetary motive, as it appears, is merely a reflection, a by-product of something much nastier: people, who are less than human, in their convictions.

And you have people, like the Wall Street gang—what do you think Geithner is? Take the case of Geithner, just as an example, people like him. What do you think he is? He's not really human in his motives! I mean, the guy is evil! He does evil!

What is Obama? Obama is motivated to do evil! His motivation is evil! His motivation is not to make money. His motivation is to do evil.

And you have to have a cultural force in society, the dominant ones, ensure that those who represent a commitment to evil, are not allowed to have access to power. Or, if they have access to power, they are kept under control, so they can't use it, for this kind of thing. The idea that money, greed for money—no, that's the delusion. That's what traps people.

You have got people who are behind this, like the head of the Federal Reserve System [Ben Bernanke], like Geithner, who are not morally human! They are doing things consciously, that are contrary to what human beings are! And the vehicle they use, to exert this power, is to use money, as an ideological force, to manage and control the people.

Once we destroy that illusion, and get nations which have had enough of this stuff, to agree to work together, to eliminate that crap from our planet, we are going to move ahead.

Steinberg: One thing that happened, just this past week, ten days—it's really just stunning how openly and overtly the Obama crowd is pushing this genocidal agenda: You had Bernanke at the FOMC [Federal Open Market Committee], a little over ten days ago, turning on the printing presses for a Weimar hyperinflation. You had Geithner, yesterday, announcing exactly the opposite of what you said about Glass-Steagall: that the way to deal with the housing finance crisis, is for taxpayers to guarantee mortgage-backed securities. It's an invitation for another, massive financial bubble, to kill people.

And then, you had the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration, and [Donald] Berwick, who is the interim appointee of Obama, who could never have gotten confirmed through the Senate, heading up the Medicare Commission, announcing that they are cutting off access, to life-saving cancer drugs. Why? Because of cost-effectiveness reasons. [See article in this issue—ed.]

So, as you warned, back in April of 2009, and when we put the moustache on Obama, for pursuing Hitler-like policies—this past week, they have come out, and made that explicit! They are actually in the implementation phase of those kinds of genocidal policies. You, yourself, said the other day, that if they let this FDA ruling go through, it's the first step toward death camps, in the United States.

LaRouche: Yes. Exactly. But you have to understand: It is not a monetary interest. It's a social thing: They intend to destroy the U.S. population, and make it a bunch of slaves, for imperial reasons. Now, imperial reasons, is not financial imperialism. Financial imperialism is an instrument of imperialism! But the motive is actually social. You could say it's the same thing as racist: I mean, the instinct, what you get from Wall Street, in dealing with, hitting the Congressmen—

Steinberg: Right, "Frühmenschen."

LaRouche:—and saying, "You have to enforce this, you have to enforce this, you have to enforce this." What are they doing? They are saying, "Well, you have to make a class of people, who are now underdogs, and you manage the population. If you think they are too numerous, you starve them to death, you kill them in other ways." So, it's inhuman! And what we have, in terms of what is controlling the Congress, right now, controlling the government as a whole, what we are having is something which is inhuman. It is intrinsically inhuman. It is not inhuman because it sometimes commits crimes: Its existence is a crime!

Steinberg: You know, it's funny, because people are very confused about the public image of Bertrand Russell versus your characterization of him as the most evil man of the 20th Century. And all you've got to do is look at his writing, and you get an idea of this oligarchical outlook, when he said, in 1953, that wars aren't good enough for wiping out enough people, and that what we really need to develop, is the technology for having a Black Death, once every generation, so the right kind of people can procreate freely, and the wrong kind of people can be eliminated efficiently.

LaRouche: Exactly! It's not a monetary thing. It is exactly what Aeschylus described in his dramas. This thing that Aeschylus emphasized was the basis for the Peloponnesian War. Here you had the Greek states, especially three, Athens, Corinth, and Syracuse, that had effectively dominated the destruction of the Persian Empire. Absolutely victorious! But in the process of going to victory, they also had a Peloponnesian War, and the Peloponnesian War destroyed the movement!

The Oligarchical Principle

And for example, the trial and execution of Socrates typifies what this was: And it was a social idea, against which Aeschylus had warned in his dramas. This social idea had taken over: It was called the "oligarchical principle," technically, in the language of the time: the oligarchical principle. And the objective was, to have a unified empire, between the so-called "Greek" people (they weren't calling themselves Greeks, then), and the Persian Empire. And the idea was to divide the world between a land-based empire, which would be the Persian Empire, the Achaemenid Empire of that time, and which would be, essentially the river basin, and the eastern part of Turkey, and that area; and, on the maritime side, you would have the maritime power—the Cult of Apollo, essentially would run it. And that was the agreement. Which was screwed up, by Alexander the Great, who made a mess of that....

So what you had, is you had, actually, a social crisis, in which the ideas of Aeschylus and others, the ideas of the Pythagoreans and so forth, these were the great ideas of Classical Greek culture, which we rightly look back to, in European culture today—.

But there was another force there, an evil force, and it is well known. An evil force is expressed by the ability of these guys, of the Cult of Apollo, the Delphi Cult, to get a war between Athens, Corinth, and Syracuse, which was called the Peloponnesian War. And the Peloponnesian War's effect created the conditions, which, despite Alexander the Great's attempts to reverse that process, despite that, this evil persisted, and became the Mediterranean imperial system, which had various forms, such as the Roman Empire, the Byzantine Empire, and so forth.

And the Crusades were part of the same thing. The Crusades were the new form of the Peloponnesian War, the same kind of effect.

Then out of this, we have the religious wars of 1492-1648 all through Europe—again, another great thing.

And the point was, in that period, especially by the settlement in Massachusetts, first the Plymouth settlement, and then, the Massachusetts Bay Colony, under the Charter, the royal Charter, which was a change, was the force, to take the best of European culture, which meant looking back to what had been the best in the Classical Greek culture, before the Peloponnesian War, back to Socrates, back to Plato, and brought that into what became the United States. And say, this became, from the Massachusetts Bay Colony, became the generation of our nation. We are a European culture, largely.

Now we have cultures from various other parts of the world, China, and so forth. But our culture was essentially founded as a Europe culture. But it was taking European culture, and its accomplishments, and moving a sample of that across the ocean, into North America.

Steinberg: Free from the power of the oligarchy.

LaRouche: That's right, at a relatively safe distance, hopefully. And therefore, we in the United States have institutions which are unique to us, which are a reflection of the fact that Europe never freed itself, really, of this oligarchical legacy, that we were the leading force to take what had been European civilization, to save the best of European civilization, try to draw the European nations into an alliance with us, and approach the whole world from that standpoint.

And if we look at it in that way, it's understandable. It is when we look at it from the standpoint of the usual newspaper headlines, or the usual books and things, that you get completely confused. Because people have explanations of things that are not true, and they fool themselves.

[1] North American Water and Power Alliance; see "NAWAPA, from the Standpoint of Biospheric Development," by Sky Shields, Oyang Teng, Michelle Lerner, Cody Jones, and Ben Deniston; EIR, Aug. 13, 2010.

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