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This edited transcript appears in the September 14, 2012 issue of Executive Intelligence Review.

War Among Nations Today Means Thermonuclear War

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Lyndon LaRouche was interviewed by Alex Jones, on his Internet radio program, Sept. 7. ( Here is the edited transcript.

Alex Jones: The more I learn in my own research, the more I learn how right he is, which has become a big media event, that "Jones is a LaRouchean!" But what I am is a seeker of truth, that's what I'm seeking out. And that's why he's here with us.

And sir, I hear that you are just about 90 years old, but I tell you, you don't look a day over 75. What's your secret to youngevity—longevity?

Lyndon LaRouche: I don't know, maybe there's some virtue there, somewhere, or some reward for something I had done or not done! I just enjoy doing what I do. I feel committed to what I'm doing.

Jones: What is your birthday, is it today or tomorrow?

LaRouche: It's tomorrow.

Jones: Wow, so you'll be 90 years old, on Sept. 8.

LaRouche: Yep!

Jones: Well, happy birthday!

LaRouche: Thank you.

Jones: No one can say that you've sat around on your hind end for 90 years.

LaRouche: No! A lot of other places, but not that.

Jones: Let's get into world events first.... I just read over a snapshot of news today; I see the world lining up like we saw before the first two world wars. Am I wrong, in intellectually, historically, but also in my gut, feeling the serious tremors in the force?

LaRouche: I think there are only two major sources of threat: One is the British monarchy and the other is the British monarchy's puppet, which is Obama.

The situation is, that as the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the United States have shown, they understand that any war that breaks out now, such as in the Middle East or elsewhere, will be a thermonuclear war. There may be other minor things and conflicts which are going on, but any time the force comes in, and someone says we're going to start the attack, it's going to be a full, global attack, and it's going to be thermonuclear. And the question is, will anybody survive, eventually, not merely out of the war.

Because you forget the Russian and Chinese capabilities, which are very significant, against the United States and Britain and something from France, which is the other side; and these forces are going to go against each other on a thermonuclear basis from the get-go! And that means that our major submarines are going to launch in their time; it's going to be a full launch, probably one or two rounds; maybe within an hour and a half, it's all over! And the world looks pretty dead.

So we're at a point where the idea of simple war, or war breaking out, or incidents leading to war, is not going to happen. What's happened is, Russia and China have made a very firm commitment not to start a war, but also to defend against it.

Most people in the United States want no part of this. The only person really behind it, is the President, Obama; and Obama's with the Queen, but most of the people in Britain are not for this nonsense either.

So we're on the verge of the worst kind of warfare one could imagine, which would break out very suddenly, with very little warning on any part. Certain services, such as the U.S. services would understand, and know that this is going on immediately.

War Avoidance by Senior Military Figures

Jones: Let me stop you there, sir, because what you're saying is obviously right on target. But people may not understand: The last two chairmen of the Joint Chiefs, the last three heads of CENTCOM, have refused to attack Iran, saying it would bring in China and Russia. Now, they've sent the fleets over to menace China, and they think that that's going to allow this attack. But now, even [JCS Chief Gen. Martin] Dempsey came out and said—the exact quote was a headline, "Do not blame us when Israel strikes, and don't think we're supporting it." So, to have the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs saying that, shows that the military establishment—who love wars, I mean that's what they do—are saying, "Do not do this." How significant is that? That signifies a mutiny within the saner sectors of the power structure?

LaRouche: I'm not sure the word "mutiny" is quite the right term. The point is, because nothing that the Joint Chiefs and others are doing, to that effect, is a violation of anything on their part.

Jones: Sure, that's the wrong term. It's a sanity call. What would you call it, then?

LaRouche: The point is, you've got to throw this President out of office. Even though he's just been nominated, I don't think it's going to stick, and he's not in a winning position right now.

Jones: But what does it mean inside the government, where you have so many connections, to have the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs come out and say something countervailing what the President and certain sectors of Israel are pushing?

LaRouche: Yes, but the Joint Chiefs are operating within their powers of government. And the President doesn't dare challenge that directly! Because the President is not a popular President!

Jones: Am I right to say that it's seismic, though? How big of a deal is it to have the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs come out, say that, and he gets almost no press?

LaRouche: You're talking about, if you're a member of the Joint Chiefs and you're a patriot as I am, you're not going to play games, guessing games or anything with this policy. We know that any major war that breaks out on this planet will be a thermonuclear war! There are no minor wars possible! You can not have a continuation of the war within the Middle East at all. Any such war will lead to thermonuclear war, immediately. And that means, that within about an hour and a half, most of the world is dead. And anyone who is competent, like the Joint Chiefs, or other people of the same interests—Russians or Chinese, all the same thing—this war must not occur! And if somebody tries to start it, we should get them out of the way, quick.

Because we're in the age of thermonuclear warfare, and nobody can win thermonuclear warfare. The human race might go extinct within the aftermath of such an attack. So no sane person—and I wouldn't include this President as sane—no sane person wants to start such a war.

There are other means we're going to have to use, to deal with conflict. Many of the means are not conflict at all; they're just arguments about how we're going to settle things. But we've come to a time where we have to learn the truth: You can not have war among major nations today. No sane head of government would launch it.

But I think there are some people who are not so sane, including our current President. But don't assume with all the boolah-boolah, that he's going to win this election. Right now, he's running as a loser, not because the other guys are smart, but because he is so bad, and he is losing anything resembling friends and supporters at a rapid rate.

Obama's Unconstitutional Wars

Jones: Again, you have a lot of connections inside the Pentagon, CIA, you name it; I want to get their take on where this is going. Are there October Surprises that this regime could pull? And how we do avert kicking off a wider war in the Middle East? The big proxy war is already on...

LaRouche: The point is, I think the powers that be, really do not intend to have a thermonuclear war. They intend to have a limited kind of conflict, hope that they can break up resistance, take over, and then kill people. Now, the best way to kill people is being done in the United States, by those interests who have shut off the food supply, those who are insisting, like this President, on cutting out food consumption, in an area where we're running short of the food necessary to feed people, and he's trying to turn it into gasoline or something of that sort.

It's this attempt to use bluff, threats, even terrible threats, exemplary cruelties, these kinds of things, trying to break the will of nation after nation, the way we unconstitutionally got into a war in Libya, which was a violation of our Constitution. And it's that wear-and-tear process, working on people's nerves, and trying to drive them, intimidate them and so forth.

And the problem we have here, as you see it in the election campaign: Now, Obama is not winning the election right now. I don't know what's going to happen in the future; that's a different matter. But the game is, the bluff, intimidation, bluff, threats. The murders he's perpetrated in the Middle East, daily, weekly, murders this President is doing. Without any constitutional authorization for it.

So, what you're seeing here, is you're seeing a few people, who are using the method of bluff to intimidate.

If we ever got our act together in the United States, we would have him out of there, right away. And that can be done very quickly! We have the evidence to throw him out of office. The problem is, we have a weakness on the Republican side on this thing, as well as the problems on the Democratic side.

Jones: Well, as you point out, Congressman [Walter] Jones from North Carolina has introduced legislation [HCR 107] to begin the impeachment.[1] Obama says that Congress should just sit down and shut up!

LaRouche: Well, I think the truth of the matter is, that there are some of us in the United States who are influential. As you know, there are a limited number of people who are really influential in the sense that they can push things in a direction which is, say, positive, or the other way. And it's a limited number of people. The rest of them tend to follow pressures put upon them.

And I think we're at the point that the really responsible layers in the United States, apart from the very much frightened and quieted ones—remember, the poverty of our people, the suffering of our people, is beyond anything! This is worse than the last Great Depression! And our people are suffering this under this President in particular. I mean, the deliberate action by him, in cutting down the food supply in order to make more gasoline, in order to starve farmers and others to death—that's the kind of thing you're dealing with right now.

And if we get our act together as a nation, together with other nations who you may not like, but will cooperate with us on this, that cooperation can settle this matter. The problem is, we haven't gotten that organized well enough together right now.

Curiosity—In Defiance of Obama

Jones: Amazing. Lyndon LaRouche is our guest, and you can also visit their website,, or also Lyndon, tell us what else is going on from your contacts, that we're not aware of, that we don't know about, that's happening inside of the power structure?

LaRouche: Well, just take the things that don't get discussed, one way or the other, at least not in a significant way. Let's take the case of Curiosity: We launched a successful flight of this instrument to Mars, and that may seem just like something very spectacular. It got a lot of support from people, a lot of sympathy. It was done in defiance of Obama. And that's important.

Now, the issue here is this: The problems we're talking about on politics, are not so much the real issues for the long term. The great danger that we're facing, is the danger from rocks in space. Now, this issue's been around for a long time. The famous Edward Teller, who's now deceased, was a key sponsor of this effort, to deal with this problem: It is an actual, serious threat to mankind.

Now, we have, over periods of time, these giant rocks, hitting different parts of the planet, and taking out areas, such as the equivalent of entire city areas, metropolitan cities, things like that. But once in a while, in the history of mankind—not in the terms of the living history of mankind, but of the territory—you get one big rock hits the Earth, and everybody on Earth dies, or everything on Earth tends to die; it may come back later.

So we're now in a point where the key issue before us, in terms of defense of nations, is the defense of Earth from these rocks, and the increase of the danger from that source is notable. So therefore, we've got to do something about it.

And what happened was, by putting this thing on Mars, over the President's strongest objections, Curiosity on Mars, we set into place an absolutely indispensable mechanism, by which, at the speed of light—which is the communication between us and Mars—we can determine things and make decisions and plan actions which will enable us, now, to realize what Edward Teller tried to deal with while he was still alive, the danger of rocks from the area of Jupiter down, and so forth...

Jones: That's right. When they saw Schoemaker-Levy crash into one of the gas giants, and they did calculations, they know now that every few thousands years we get hit by big rocks, every hundred thousand or so, we get hit by these mega-rocks, every million or so, ones that kill most life on the planet.... How would you quantify that?

LaRouche: Well, I would quantify that by the British Monarchy quantification: Reduce the human population, presently estimated in the range 7 billion persons, to 1 billion persons, in short order! And that's the British policy; that's the policy of Obama. He hasn't put it in exactly those terms, but that's what it is. What has he done? We don't have production of food any more! We are destroying food supplies, as they're being produced, by turning them into chemical fuels!

So we are actually in a process of a small group of people, really—it's not a big crowd, it's a small group of people. But our people have been so crushed, most people in the United States are crushed. Their very existence is being crushed. And since the past three administrations, the rate of destruction of our economy is horrible.

So the real issue is to get back to a real economy, which means we have to get rid of this hyperinflation, and that can be done by one law! We can get rid of the whole hyperinflation...

Jones: Bring back Glass-Steagall?

LaRouche: Yep! It'll do it, because...

Why Are They So Evil?

Jones: Let me ask you this question, because I know you're a historian in this area. I mean, this is a Venetian, Black Nobility, balkanization form of warfare, developed between the city-states in what is Italy today; we know that it's exported to England, and that then becomes the model of Empire. But—give us some of the minds of these people: why do they want to not have a space program? Why do they want to make people poor? I mean—why are they so evil?

LaRouche: Well, take the case of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire died, and all these empire systems have died. They've died out of their own self-destruction beforehand; Byzantium, the same kind of thing. The old Venetian system, again, the same thing, the Dark Ages with the old system.

Then you had a revival of the same kind of system, which came up with the Anglo-Dutch version, which was called the New Venetian Party. The New Venetian Party then established the British monarchy, and established it as an empire. So therefore, you have a history of this tradition of this kind of system, of what we call the oligarchical system, comes up, where a few people try by various means to control the planet, or large parts of it, and do a general destructive thing.

The problem has been, that despite our Constitution, and despite our intention, and the intention of some other countries to this effect, we have not been able to secure an actual system of government which conforms to what our intention was in creating the United States. Even the United States was unable during much of its history, to avoid being crushed and gobbled up by oligarchical influences. And that's the same thing now: You have a very small minority of the influential part of the populations of various nations, who are now raising hell, literally, against the human species. And this old thing is there, and we have somehow lost the guts to get rid of it.

Because, what you're seeing with the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the United States, and you're seeing with similar institutions in Europe, and other parts of the world, that we do have the implicit ability to mobilize the kind of reforms which could be readily applied now, to give us a system of global nation-states, which would be—they might not all agree with each other, but we have a way of living together, as nation-states.

Jones: Can we get your take on the current state of the economy, and what's happening in Europe, and where you see all of that going?

LaRouche: We're on the verge of an actual disintegration of the world economy, a chain-reaction kind of breakdown. If this policy continues, if Obama were to continue as President, I can assure you, that you would not have civilization on this planet.

So, the Republicans aren't doing anything good. But Obama is something, with his foreign influences, which is the greatest threat to the existence of the United States and other nations, that I know of on this planet today.

Jones: What did you make of his statement, telling entrepreneurs, and scientists, and inventors, that "you didn't build that"? I mean, that was a calculated statement: What is the point of a statement like that?

LaRouche: Well, the man lies! There's no truth in him! He's a pathological case! As a matter of fact, as I've described him, if you go back in history, he's a guy somebody picked up as a sort of a wise-guy dirty trick, as an echo of the Emperor Nero. And as you read the history, the detailed history of the Emperor Nero, and you look at the mentality of this President, you find that the two concur, they coincide.

But somebody, and some people, got the bright idea of taking this character, and by means which I wouldn't call exactly legal, got him picked as a President, and stuck him in office. And you see what he's done, since being in office. He's done everything, directly as imitations, to some degree of Adolf Hitler, in the sense that similar kinds of things were done, and were done by the Emperor Nero, and a few other creeps in between there!

Jones: Well, yeah! Trying to shut down most of our coal power plants, trying to pass carbon taxes, trying to end free speech, arresting journalists who talk to whistleblowers; charging whistleblowers with the Espionage Act; I had Chris Hedges, a renowned, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist, who's a very respectable, quote, "liberal," and he said Obama is much worse than Bush. As we just said, Bush and Obama are puppets.

But whatever oligarchy team is behind him, are raving lunatics, because there is a madness of power.... This is a group of lunatics!

LaRouche: Yes, a fair term!

'Go Along To Get Along'

Jones: So, what do you expect them to do, to try to hold onto power? Because you're right. It does look like a lot of the power structure is moving away from Obama. Why is that?

LaRouche: Well, essentially, they know that, but part of it is the way the control works. The control works through a few, very powerful, also financially powerful people, in various parts of the world, who are able to lure other people into going along with this kind of stuff.

For example, we don't have any industries left in the United States today; they were taken away. Taken away in the past dozen years especially. So you know, people feel powerless; many people are going to die of starvation, actually, in the United States, and for other reasons. The situation of our people is hopeless. And yet, it's very difficult to mobilize the people to defend themselves.

Jones: We've got 47 million people, roughly, on food stamps. You've got all these other economic numbers, that show we're really in a depression for four years. You've got crime exploding. But the mainstream media tries to put a cover on it, and say, "Oh we left the recession four years ago"! It's almost a Marie Antoinette "Let them eat cake," while the Obama Administration does everything it can, with Economics 101, to hurt poor people, while posing as their savior!

LaRouche: Well, the problem is, our government has failed us; our political parties have failed us: "Go along to get along!" That's their slogan, and they've been in charge for a long time. The slogan of the Senate, the slogan of the Congress, "Go along to get along!" And the rule that generally rules our Congressional system, our representative system, is that piece of corruption called "Go along to get along," which is the motto of the Congress! And as long as we allow the Congress to "go along to get along," and thus refuse to challenge their colleagues in the Congress, to cut this crap out, then we get this kind of government!

Jones: Many times, you mention Nero and others, when they have all this power, the people in control, at the very top, start almost flirting with disaster, almost tempting in their indolence, in their spoiled-rottenness. It's like a moth to flame, and they play with destruction, they flirt with it! And then bring it!

LaRouche: That's the case of history. You take what we know of human history, we know that this kind of phenomenon is the source of all corruptions. It's something which becomes a kind of a mass movement of self-corruption, and those things have happened. Whole nations, even empires, have disintegrated under that kind corruption.

We have not yet succeeded, except in a few exceptional times, especially in trying to do that with the North American development of our system. But even our system, then, became corrupted in the same way.

[1]See EIR, Sept 7, 2012.

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