HELGA ZEPP-LAROUCHE WEBCAST

With NATO in Disarray, Use Hersh Revelations
To Build Movement for Durable Peace

This is the edited transcript of the Schiller Institute’s weekly online, live dialogue with Helga Zepp-LaRouche. A video of the webcast is available here.

Harley Schlanger: Hello and welcome to our weekly dialogue with Helga Zepp-LaRouche, the founder of the Schiller Institute. I’m Harley Schlanger and this is Feb. 15, 2023.

Helga, there are many, many significant developments we need to take up today. I think we should start with the Seymour Hersh revelations, about the U.S. being responsible for the explosions on the Nord Stream pipelines. Hersh has a very prominent article from Feb. 8. He’s an extremely authoritative journalist. And you have been pushing for a while that there must be a reaction from Germany, an investigation. Now that this is breaking out into the open, including in his interview in the Berliner Zeitung yesterday, do you think there’s going to be something in Germany? What has to be done to force this into the open?

Helga Zepp-LaRouche: I think already now the German government looks extremely bad, and the whole world is making Germany a laughingstock, that Germany is a vassal state. This is so big—first of all we should recount what actually happened, according to Seymour Hersh: First, Seymour Hersh is probably the best investigative journalist in the Western world. He has not published one story ever, which was not 100% on the mark. He discovered the My Lai massacre in Vietnam; he discovered the lies around the war against Iraq in 2003; he discovered Abu Ghraib torture, and many other such stories. He got the Pulitzer Prize. And everyone who knows him personally, since many decades, testifies to his impeccable character, that he never would publish something which he has not completely verified.

So, that much for his person, because now we have some totally unqualified people who are questioning his authority, who know nothing about history; I will come to that in a second.

Hersh published this story on his blog because the mainstream media did not want to publish it, which is telling all by itself. He goes into a very detailed account of why the Nord Stream pipelines were blown up by the United States. He details the very lengthy process—that it started more than nine months ago, that there was a big debate inside the intelligence community, to do it, not to do it; and that Biden personally gave the OK. The fact that Biden, when German Chancellor Scholz was in Washington on Feb. 7, 2022, told everybody that the United States has ways to make sure this pipeline will be finished. And Scholz standing there like a little schoolboy, saying absolutely nothing. Then, Victoria Nuland bragging, after the explosion, that now the pipeline is just a piece of metal at the bottom of the Baltic Sea. Then, British Prime Minister Liz Truss (not so much trust there!) texted Antony Blinken, one minute after the explosion, “We did it.” Then, former Polish Foreign Minister Radek Sikorski tweeted a photo of the explosion, and congratulating the United States, right after the explosion.

And Hersh gives many details how Jake Sullivan, Blinken were all involved in the whole thing. And goes into the technical details, including the collaboration of Norway in this sabotage. So there are so many details, and every expert I have read in the meantime is basically saying, if it were a lie, it would have been just a declarative story without much detail: But this has many minute details which can be verified, and should be verified, and it is now time to have an international investigation, including Russia, because these are Russian pipelines.

This is absolutely scandalous. Think about it: The so-called “best ally” of Germany is blowing up pipelines which not only creates incredible economic damage—it drives the energy prices up, it makes the lives and livelihoods of many people very difficult. Many people cannot pay the cost of energy now. It’s an act of war! There were several people, including Scott Ritter, former UN weapons inspector in Iraq, and others who have said this was an act of war. According to Hersh, there was an incredible effort to craft this effort, including using non-covert forces to avoid congressional reporting. That type of maneuvering is of lesser importance, but the implications are enormous. I was interviewed by Garland Nixon, a very important U.S. commentator, and in the interview he pointed to the fact that a NATO maneuver, “BALTOPS 22,” which had as its focus the protection against a Russian aggression of NATO members, was used as a cover story to commit an act of war against one NATO member, Germany, and by implication 12 other European nations. That is enormous.

There is no way how this can be swept under the carpet. I think this cries out for absolute openness: It puts into question, what is the relationship within NATO? Norway and United States are NATO members, and if they commit an act of war against Germany, well, I think a lot of very hard questions have to be answered by this German government, and naturally, by the United States and Norway, and possibly others.

Schlanger: On the Norway question, former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan Craig Murray wrote that it’s obvious that Norway and the United States profited economically from this; not that they did it for economic profit, but they’ve made huge amounts of money by forcing Germany and other countries to have to buy liquefied natural gas from the United States.

Now, Helga, just from your sense of the situation, you issued a strong statement demanding an investigation. The interview with Hersh in Berliner Zeitung, which revealed a few more bits of information, don’t you think the pressure now is building? And how will this play into the upcoming demonstrations, including in the United States on Feb. 19, in Munich on Feb. 18, and then many other European capitals and cities on Feb. 25–26: Shouldn’t this be one of the demands of the demonstrations, for a full investigation?

Zepp-LaRouche: Yes, absolutely. Because in a certain sense, one cannot separate out reckless action. If it turns out to be that what Hersh is saying, and all evidence does point in that direction, that same recklessness is what is behind the way the confrontation with Russia and China is being conducted. So I think if anybody wants to stop the war, wants to throw a monkey wrench into the dynamic, then the idea that the whole thing has to be investigated is one of the most important steps to possibly get to a diplomatic solution and stop the war drive! Because we are very, very close to World War III, and anything which stops that dynamic is super-urgent.

Schlanger: Now, on the question of the war buildup, we still have some fallout from the Chinese so-called spy balloons. I think Edward Snowden made an interesting point: He said that he believes that the fuss over the spy balloons is to divert attention away from the Hersh article. I just wondered if you have any other thoughts on what people could do to make sure Hersh’s article gets out, because his exposé is not being covered for the most part in the mainstream media.

Zepp-LaRouche: Well, we are planning another Zoom meeting on Thursday Feb. 23, with military and security experts. I think we have to continuously demand a response from all responsible parties, because the pressure has to be built up. I think Hersh is making a severe argument that the stigma on the United States will remain for a very, very long time because of this story. Scott Ritter said this is the equivalent of an “economic Pearl Harbor” for Germany, and an act of war. So it cannot go unanswered, and therefore the more people spread the Hersh article through social media, through their contacts and networks, and all join the chorus to demand a sudden investigation is extremely urgent.

Schlanger: Helga, you mentioned that this is an indication of the recklessness with which NATO is approaching Russia and China. There’s a NATO defense ministers’ meeting going on yesterday and today, talking about more arms to Ukraine, but it seems to be a little bit less direct than what they were talking about when Zelenskyy was in London. And then there’s the Munich Security Conference [Feb. 17–19] which will have a visit from Wang Yi from China. How do these things fit into the picture?

Zepp-LaRouche: I think NATO is more in disarray than they admit. At the ministerial meeting that is taking place, it is very clear, at least from the reporting, that all the Western military industrial firms cannot produce enough ammunition quickly enough to compensate for what is being used by the Ukrainians. So there is a supply problem. The tanks are coming in slowly: All the countries that made a big noise and pressure on Germany to deliver the Leopard 2, are now themselves behind in delivery, so Germany is standing alone in the forefront. People ask, “What is going on here?”

General Kujat [former chairman of the NATO Military Committee] made the argument that the idea of sending NATO fighter jets will automatically mean that NATO pilots will be sent, which is likely a trip-wire for the Russians, because any more direct NATO involvement is getting us one gigantic step more—and nobody knows exactly, at least one can only guess, when it will be too late!

We are approaching World War III rapidly, with every step in this direction, and therefore the demand to stop immediately and have negotiations, have a diplomatic solution, which is the main focus of these demonstrations, is becoming super-urgent.

Now, the Munich Security Conference, from what was clear beforehand, is a farce. It has nothing to do with security. It has to do with putting together a war alliance of the so-called “democracies” against the “autocracies.” But if you look at the action of what these “democracies” do and what these so-called “autocracies” do, well, the democracies look pretty bad.

Just take the example of the aid to Syria. Who is helping Syria [recover from the earthquakes]? It’s the Chinese: They are sending planes to Damascus, bringing urgently required supplies and medicine and other things. The West, with all its “values,” is refusing to lift the sanctions. That means that almost no aid is getting through. There’s a lot of help going to Türkiye, which obviously needs it very badly, because it’s described as the worst catastrophe in 100 years. But Syria, which is equally hit, maybe not as many deaths, but the people who are hit are in dire need; and the West, Baerbock, the United States, they should not talk about democracy and human rights: they have lost any credibility to do that, if you look at their despicable behavior, how they now treat the victims of the Turkish-Syrian earthquakes.

Everybody who is a decent human being should demand an immediate lifting of the Caesar sanctions; Syria has been hit with U.S. sanctions now for more than 10 years, and the country, even before the earthquakes, had more than 90% poverty as a result, and what is happening against Syria is unconscionable. For me, it’s the declaration of bankruptcy of the West if they don’t change their behavior.

Schlanger: We’ve been very much involved in pulling together a mobilization against the war, and you’ve been insisting for a while that the best way to do this, is to develop a new security and economic development architecture. But what’s interesting is that we’re seeing the so-called “left” and the so-called “right,” which are generally arbitrary profiles, coming together against the war. That is causing a real panic in the establishment, isn’t it?

Zepp-LaRouche: Yes, because the demonstration scheduled for Feb. 19 in Washington, D.C. includes a very broad coalition of people, the Libertarian Party, the People’s Party, Diane Sare from the LaRouche movement, and many others, including religious leaders. So there has been an absolutely unbelievable (not unbelievable, because we have endured such for many decades), a campaign to vilify each one! Slanders against one person because of alleged unethical behavior, against another person because of alleged “racist remarks,” which all turn out to be untrue: There has been a strong effort, so far quite unsuccessful, to split the alliance, although some speakers have been under enormous pressure to withdraw.

I think it’s a lesson that the people who are the warmongers really do not want people to ally in demonstrations for peace. But it could very well be a very powerful demonstration. I can only ask people to support all of these demonstrations: Feb. 18, in Munich at the Munich Security Conference; on Feb. 19, in the United States—it’s not just in Washington, D.C., but in many other parts of the country, in Texas and Los Angeles, and several other places. And then on Feb. 25 in Berlin, and also some other European capitals: We will report on those next week. And then on Feb. 22, there will be a day of action, in which several groups will visit their Congressional representatives. People should demand meetings with all members of parliament in Europe as well, to confront them and ask what are they doing to stop this war danger?

These are all going in the right direction, but everybody should participate in these, because everything is at stake. And as I have said in the past, the fact that world war is threatening automatically makes everybody a world citizen, and gives them the right to move.

Schlanger: You mentioned that the Schiller Institute will be sponsoring a Zoom call on the Hersh revelations. Also there will be a Zoom call sometime soon on the Syrian situation and the urgency to break the sanctions. Can you say when these will be?

Zepp-LaRouche: The Zoom call on the Hersh revelations on the destruction of the Nord Stream pipelines will be Thursday, Feb. 23, at 7 p.m. European Central Time [1 p.m. EST]. The Syria call will be on Feb. 21 at 6 p.m. European Central Time [12 noon EST] .

Schlanger: People should join us in mobilizing immediately to put pressure on governments to stop killing children for the sake of regime change in Syria.

Also, on the mobilization, Helga, you initiated a process for a letter campaign to support the Pope’s offer for the Vatican to serve as a venue for negotiations without preconditions. It seems as though this is continuing to gain momentum. What can you tell us about that?

Zepp-LaRouche: That’s very important. As we discussed previously, the Pope has offered the Vatican as a venue for unconditional negotiations between Russia and Ukraine. Many religious leaders are responding to that, and are mobilizing to support the Pope. There’s much more going on than would be clear from the mass media. I’m in contact with many religious groups in many countries, and I can only urge you: Please join this fight! Several people have said that this will not happen immediately, but it will be a very important option to use in a moment of utmost crisis.

So, please send me your comments if you have any questions. I would like to get into much more direct communication with you. If you send comments to this show, I promise it will be answered. [Use comments section below the YouTube video screen.]

We have to get many more people actively involved, because what is really at stake is the existence of civilization. Most people don’t yet have a comprehension that if it comes to nuclear war, the likelihood that all life on this planet will be extinct, is super-high: Ten years of nuclear winter to follow a nuclear exchange would eliminate all life on the planet. And that is why we need you, and need you to mobilize every network and all the colleagues and friends you have.

Schlanger: When you call for people to be in touch with you and with the Schiller Institute, one of the things that you did was, you put out a statement of what you called “Ten Principles for a New International Security and Development Architecture,” which would underlie the basis for not just for ending the war but for peace.

I know this is being circulated very widely. I’m receiving comments on it. But I think, again, to mobilize the proper kind of response to the war situation, it would be worth it for you to summarize the intent you had with this, and why it’s so essential that this kind of discussion take place. Because this is what the censorship is aimed at stopping—keeping people from discussing these kinds of principles that go above day-to-day politics.

Zepp-LaRouche: It is clear to me, since this war in Ukraine happened, that the whole structure is completely inadequate for the long-term survival of humanity. NATO having undergone a transformation from a defense alliance against the Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact, is now in an offensive alliance: Global NATO trying to contain China and trying to basically make the Russian state extinct in its present form, divide it into different pieces. That is not a new thing: That was already being pushed by [Secretary of State] Madeleine Albright. I don’t need Putin to tell me that. Because every time anyone says something like that, the argument comes, “Oh, you are repeating Russian propaganda.”

I think the effort to put a gag order on anybody who discusses the strategic situation is just intolerable. Because the present way, how NATO is set up against Russia and against China is the prescription for a tragedy, from which nobody will recover.

So it was clear to me from the beginning: We need a new international security and development architecture, which, based on the principles of the Peace of Westphalia, takes into account the security interest of every country on the planet: And that includes emphatically, Ukraine, Russia, China, and many other countries which are falling through the cracks right now.

Now, what distinguishes our mobilization from other people who are just demonstrating against the war danger, is the clear idea that the first step is to be against the war. But then, the question is how do you organize the order of the collaboration and living together of nations, so that a durable peace is possible? And for that reason, I have proposed these Ten Principles, which are not ten “points” or ten program points, but they are principles which are coherent and hang together with how a new order can be conceived. I can only urge you, please read these Principles: it’s sovereignty; elimination of poverty and underdevelopment; world health system; universal education; a credit system which can finance all of that; infrastructure development of all continents.

And then, I basically have three philosophical principles which are needed to make this whole thing hang together: One is how do you get people to think the One humanity first, before you think of nations or groups of nations, and this is necessary to overcome geopolitics. Because you have to learn to think the One humanity, if we want to get out of this crisis.

And I have sought the help of Nicholas of Cusa, a great thinker of the 15th Century, and his idea of the Coincidentia Oppositorum, the Coincidence of Opposites, as a method of thinking. Because that allows people to think always the higher One, which gives you a way of looking at a problem in a completely different way, and the One has a higher power than the Many. Then, naturally, the need to bring the political, economic and social order into cohesion with the laws of the physical universe, which is verifiable, so it gives you a standard of approach.

And then, lastly, very important, and obviously both controversial: I said that all of this has to be based on the knowledge that the nature of man is intrinsically good, and that all evil comes from a lack of development. Now, I got a lot of responses to that. But I undertook the effort to look at which philosophy and which epistemological approach assumes an image of man where man is good, and which one assumes an image of man where man is bad. And it’s so funny: All the great religions have an image of man as being good. So does humanism, Classical art, and basically all these are outlooks which assume that it is the obligation of man to be self-perfecting, to unfold all the potentials one has. While the oligarchy and empires say, no, man is evil, you need a Leviathan, you need a strong dictatorship to subdue the evil character of man.

So it’s a very interesting question, and I’m looking forward to getting many comments. Because that is in my view, the absolutely most crucial question: Can we find a solution to the dilemma which we are in, or not?

Schlanger: And for those who want to pursue more deeply these Ten Principles of a New International Security and Development Architecture, they’re posted on the Schiller Institute website.

And let me also encourage people that, as part of the commemoration of the fourth anniversary of Lyndon LaRouche’s passing on Feb. 12, 2019, we have put up a “marathon” of videos and presentations from Mr. LaRouche, which provide insights and inspiration which should help people in facing this crisis with the kind of courage and intellectual boldness that’s needed.

Helga, is there anything more you want to add in conclusion?

Zepp-LaRouche: Just mobilize and go to these demonstrations and mobilize all of your friends to do likewise.

Schlanger: Good advice! Thanks for joining us today, and we’ll see you again next week.

Zepp-LaRouche: Till next week.