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This transcript appears in the March 25, 2011 issue of Executive Intelligence Review.

The Sun Is Acting Up; No Compromise with the Greenies!

This March 16 Special Edition of the LaRouche PAC Weekly Report, hosted by John Hoefle, featured guests Lyndon LaRouche, and Sky Shields of the LaRouche Basement research team. Here is an edited transcript.

[PDF version of this edited transcript]

John Hoefle: Hello, welcome to the LaRouchePAC Weekly Report for March 16, 2011. I'm John Hoefle, and with me in the studio today, are Sky Shields of our Basement Team, and Lyndon LaRouche.

So, we have a very cosmic show today.

Lyndon LaRouche: Precisely. We are faced now, in terms of anything we have broadcast, from here, or similar locations, the most thunderously important development in modern history, perforce. What's happening is, first of all, on one side, the international trans-Atlantic press is lying. This is not unusual for the trans-Atlantic press, to lie, but the lies now are beyond any belief possible. Every day, the Washington Post, the New York Times, the Financial Times, and so forth, are putting out propaganda which is absolutely false.

Now, what's happening is, and it began in February: We have a series of major seismic catastrophes, which began in the South Island, in particular, of New Zealand; it's spreading up the Asian coast, and on principle, is heading, ultimately, toward Alaska, down to California, and down to Chile. It's part of the same process in general, which knocked out parts of the world before, earlier, but this is now coming on. Sky will go into some of the technicalities as they come up on this, but I'm going to stick to the general concept of what's going on here.

What you have is, the international press, for the past several weeks, including the New York Times and Washington Post, and so forth, who are lying their heads off: Nothing they say, in the headlines of this press, is true. What they're trying to do, is create a scare around a big lie: The lie is that the problem in Japan is a matter of a nuclear power crisis. There's no truth to it whatsoever. The nuclear power plants in Japan, have done very well. They've gone beyond, in their ability to sustain themselves, beyond anything that was built into their design.

So there's nothing wrong with the nuclear plants, except they're being wrecked—by what? They're being wrecked by a crisis which is orders of magnitude greater than any nuclear power plant ever built on this planet. And it's the Sun, the son of you know what. And the Sun is acting up again. We're in a cycle period, but this is more extreme than in earlier cycles we've experienced.

But what you're getting, stories from all of these press are saying "nuclear crisis, nuclear power crisis, nuclear power crisis, nuclear power crisis"—Europe, here, and so forth. It's all one lie! Because the power involved here is orders of magnitude beyond anything that any nuclear plant ever devised could do! It's one big lie.

Nothing Wrong with Japan's Nuclear Plants

What's happening is that the Sun is acting up! That is, the Sun is acting up in a degree which apparently exceeds what we've experienced with solar systems of this type earlier. And what has happened is, essentially, super earthquakes are occurring. And they are occurring especially in the Pacific region, on the Pacific Rim. And it broke out, first of all, in the islands of the Atlantic, but then, the current serious cycle started in the South Island of New Zealand, went up to Japan, and it threatens to go to Alaska; it threatens to come down the West Coast of the United States, and so forth, and so on, and other places. We have no idea what the limits are. We have some indications of what we're dealing with. But what is being published in the press, is one complete, absolute lie.

When you take the Washington Post—it's lied as it's never has lied before. The New York Times has lied as it has never lied before—and they were good at lying; they've got a long record for this sort of thing, even treasonous lying, that sort of thing. But this is the worst.

So, what has to be understood is just exactly that.

And what we're doing is the obvious thing: We have a certain degree of knowledge of these matters. We also have a degree of knowledge of what we don't know—and that's even more important than what we do know. But we're going to use the occasion of this crisis, to push the investigations into what we have to come to know, in order to deal with this crisis. There's nothing wrong with the nuclear power plants in Japan, absolutely nothing wrong. They held up beyond all previously established standards for security. But what happened is, the crisis in the Pacific, the Pacific region, just went beyond all existing standards for these nuclear plants. And so, they just were wrecked.

But you have to see, that the forces involved in this crisis are several orders of magnitude greater than any nuclear power plant ever built, greater than even our famous explosions, hydrogen explosions in the Pacific. Nothing like this has ever been produced by man on this sort of magnitude, and man still can not produce anything on this order of magnitude.

There's nothing wrong with nuclear power; we need it. But what's happening is, you're getting a worse than fascist movement, including that around our President, who is worse than a fascist, and there's no exaggeration in that whatsoever. But the British in particular: They're lying like the Devil, because they are determined to proceed with this acceleration of bailout, the third bailout, and they're pushing for this bailout. The intention is to reduce the population of the United States, greatly. Reduce the population of Europe, greatly. Aim to reduce the population of Asia, greatly. They are for a program of genocide. And if nuclear power programs still exist, it will be impossible to carry out this genocide. And the target here, the target of the lies, the motive for the lies, is the intention of genocide, coming from the British monarchy: That's what the problem is.

The other side of the problem, is, we face, objectively, a crisis of the Solar System and beyond, which is, I think, beyond our experience so far, any human knowledge, human experience and so forth. We can probably solve these problems, but we're going to have to muster ourselves to solve them.

But these lies, which are coming out of the press, and out of governments, are a threat to humanity now. And what we're talking about, today, and will be talking about in the coming weeks, will be, probably, the most important subject matter to be presented to the human species during this time.

And Sky has been on top of the team in this. On Monday morning, looking at the facts, I said, by Tuesday evening, we had the objective of taking some of the knowledge we had, and presenting enough of it, to introduce the concept of what this crisis is about. And the team did perform, they did it, on time, yesterday afternoon: They reached exactly the objective I set on Monday morning. And that's one of our best achievements so far.

But Sky can give you a picture of exactly what the team has been doing, and I think he should do that right now.

The 'Rim of Fire'

Sky Shields: I'll give everybody a rundown. First I'd like to direct the attention of all the viewing audience, to the video that was up as of yesterday, put together. I think the title is "Ring of Fire"—

LaRouche: "Rim of Fire."

Shields: "Rim of Fire"—but you'll find it featured prominently right now, on the website, with an introduction [to LaRouche:] You provided a very sharp introduction, to situate where we stand, right now, strategically, but in a very long arc of history. And, to give people insight into a problem that I think most people aren't aware of, its actual character, although they're seriously affected by it: that right now, what we're facing is a real risk for the human species, if we behave the way the news reports are encouraging us to behave in response to this Japanese earthquake. What we're facing is a risk of something equivalent to the extinction of the human species, or, at the very least, extinction of human society as it exists at present.

That is, the response being pushed by all the press right now, to the actual crisis in Japan—the earthquake that was experienced, the tsunami—the response is to try and pull back the level of technological development that we've achieved as a species thus far. There's been an attack on nuclear power, an attack in general on technological progress, coming from environmentalist and other press sources. If we do that, we are risking putting ourselves in the exact same position as every other species on this planet has been, up until the present, over the last few billion years of Earth's history: which is that, coincident with major cosmic changes, major changes on a galactic level, on a Solar System level, with animal species, you see major extinction events. The entire history of the Earth is punctuated by these massive changes, the wiping out of the vast majority of species on the planet, and the introduction of completely new species.

These events are always correlated with major tectonic activity, major earthquakes, major volcanism; these are correlated with interesting changes that we don't know how they're causally connected, though we know that they're statistically connected with things like ocean levels. But also, correlated, most significantly, with major changes in the cosmic radiation environment of the Earth, our Solar System, and the galaxy as a whole. This we can find in the records of the different types of meteorites that we find on the Earth, from different periods in time. Which gives you an idea, that there's a much larger process here that's driving the events that we see on the ground.

With the appearance of man, though, we have, for the first time ever, the opportunity to experience these types of major changes, that you've seen in Earth's history, but without the extinction of our species. We contain, within the human species, a cognitive process, as opposed to just a living process—we contain these successive leaps within us. We can voluntarily choose to change, in an anti-entropic, constantly developing direction. And to the extent that we resist that, we put ourselves in the exact same position as any other animal species has been in, in the past, and we bring on crises of the sort that other species once experienced.

That's a real crisis, right now, that you're starting to see, that the Japan situation is just indicative of. It's a crisis in the fact that over the last several decades, by executing policies of type that are exemplified by Obama, exemplified by the British Empire, and the various interests that are beholden to them, in the course of executing these policies, we've seen an effective backwards motion in the state of existence of our species. We've seen the attempt, on their part, explicitly, to try and hold us still, in terms of technological development, in terms of overall economic progress, and the result is, that we are right now in a crisis, which for us, is sort of the cultural equivalent of what the dinosaurs faced, at the boundary between the Cretaceous and the Tertiary period.

Hoefle: So, the policies of Greenies are going to kill us all.

Shields: Exactly. This is the biggest threat that we face right now. This is the biggest threat. So the attack on nuclear power, in the face of it, is the exact worst thing you could possibly do.

I can make a point. It shows up for us, as sort of what [to LaRouche:] you've described before as an "Appointment in Samara": People should think back—a number of criminal steps that were taken by this current Obama Administration, since it was brought in. But a significant one to draw your attention to, is what was done with the attack on the manned space program. Now, this was sold to people—people accepted a load of crap on this, that this is a "major expense," that this is something we have to cut back on: "NASA will focus on other things."

But to give you an idea of what the effect of that was: One of the major areas of research that was connected to the manned space program, was the activity of the Sun. Because it was recognized that at any point during several of these Apollo missions, there was one major unknown that we luckily avoided, which was that, the amount of energies that are produced, during certain solar events, namely certain solar flares and these coronal mass ejections, are high enough, and capable of producing enough radiation of the right quality, that they could have easily killed the astronauts, at the various missions. Apollo 17 actually narrowly missed one of these flare events, that would have been deadly to all the astronauts there.

So, because of that, the manned space program had, as one of its major emphases, looking at what is it we don't understand, which is almost everything, about the actual behavior of the Sun, and these incredibly huge energetic events. With the cutting of the funding, by Obama, for the manned space program, the amount of research and attention that's being focused on this solar activity has vanished. And a number of us from the Basement have been attending various heliophysics conferences that have been taking place.

And you can see, since Obama's decision, the funds have dried up; there's been a complete change of focus on this, with the assumption that, "well, if there's no longer any manned space program, then there's no longer any need to worry about these types of major solar events."

So there was the attempt to try and run from this effect in space, where we should have encountered it, and now, we encounter it right here on Earth again, and then some. Because, what is also the case, what's known, is that these exact same major events, that were threatening the astronauts, these same flares, these coronal mass ejections, are also correlated to major seismic events on Earth.

And people have seen—the last couple of earthquakes we just saw over the last few weeks, in Japan, in New Zealand, a prior earthquake that occurred in Haiti—each of these have been correlated to what's discussed in this recent video that was just put out, this "Rim of Fire" video, correlated to our Sun "waking up" from its dormant period, which usually occurs on a 11-year cycle, and is now strangely occurring on what seems to be a 13-year cycle: that as the solar activity is increasing, you're seeing a corresponding increase in the types of tectonic and other activity here on Earth. And it's encountering us, completely unprepared, because of the pullback in the funding in research in these areas. And now, we're in a position where it's an existential crisis for us to step up this investigation, and to really put together a clear picture of exactly how the phenomena that occur on Earth are correlated to these much larger astronomical cycles.

Mankind Is, Uniquely, Intentionally Creative

Hoefle: Well, what you're describing shoots this whole global-warming nonsense out of the water. That the forces from the Sun, and from the cosmic radiation from other parts of the universe, are much more important in what goes on on the Earth, than what we have done. As you said, the power we've produced, the energy-flux density we've produced, is dwarfed by what's coming from these other things.

LaRouche: We have another question here, which I think at this point has to be emphasized, the other side of this: The question of the nature of mankind. And most people are not very much concerned about the nature of mankind, and haven't been. These imperial systems are not concerned about mankind. They want to keep mankind stupid, because mankind can not be controlled unless he's stupid. They don't want a high-technology program, because mankind will then not accept this kind of imperialism, such as British imperialism.

Look, face the fact: Prince Philip of Britain, the British monarchy's policy is genocide! The policy of the British monarchy, officially, has been, and remains, to reduce the world's human population, from the order of magnitude of 7 billion people, to less than 2! That's the policy. Look at the press: you look at the New York Times, you look at the Washington Post, look at the other press that has this line, the pro-genocide line.

Now, the other side is, what about this? Is this simply genocide, or is there something else involved? There's something more involved than simply the arbitrary genocide which we're getting now. The Green movement is a movement of genocide! The international Green movement is a genocide movement; these people are guilty of genocide! And that's not over the top; that's a fact. And the British monarchy has said it repeatedly, but dumb jerks don't even believe what the British monarchy says about its own evil intentions. They don't take it into account.

The other side is this: The whole conception of physics involved here is really screwed up, in terms of education and so forth. The doctrine is, and has been since the beginning of the 19th Century—the doctrine is that mankind is living under a system of universal entropy. That mankind is always declining, it's using things up. And it can not progress beyond that point. They're saying that any attempt to expand scientific development of the planet, in a sense, is wrong, because if you increase the energy-flux density, you're going to accelerate the rate of decay!

Now, exactly the opposite is true. The distinction of man, as distinct from all animals, is that mankind, in particular, is consciously creative. Now, all forms of life and non-life in the universe, that we know of, are creative. Even the inanimate material is creative, as we see in the evolution of the stellar system: It's creative. It goes to higher degrees, higher orders of magnitude; that's what we know about its history.

For example, the development of species on planet Earth: We have wiped out, or actually our system has wiped out whole populations of species. But the kinds of species that have come to replace the species that were wiped out, were superior to those that were wiped out. That's been the history, the progress of living processes, the process even of nonliving processes. A supernova is also an event, it's not just a destructive event. It's a recreation of a condition of the universe, on a newer and higher level.

But mankind is unique, because, while life itself is creative, and while even non-life is creative in the universe, only mankind is willfully creative. And because of this, every other species but mankind, of which we know, every other species is ultimately doomed to be extinct. That's been the history. Look at the history of what we know, for the past several billion years of life on this planet. Every lower form of life goes extinct. And it's the lower ones that go extinct and make room for the higher ones. Now, mankind is unique, in the sense that only human beings have the potential of willful creativity. No other species that we know of, has manifested the ability of willful genuine creativity.

Man's ability to exist, under these increasingly, shall we say, tense or challenging circumstances, depends upon the development of the creative powers of the human mind to raise the cultural level of mankind to a higher level, to be able to overcome these kinds of things that wiped out entire species, or 90% of the species on this planet that were wiped out, at a certain point, as a result of this.

So man's ability to survive as a species, a human species, depends upon human creativity. It depends upon realizing, that the nature of the universe, the nature of competent economy, is that economies are always increasing their energy-flux density. This increase in energy-flux density is made possible—as Vernadsky, for example, defined this—by the creative potential of the human mind. And there's no other known species that has willful, genuine creativity. No other species has the will power to actually cause an increase in the energy-flux density of existence. And we depend upon that.

So, when we stop nuclear power, we're condemning man to Hell! When we postponed the development of thermonuclear fusion, as a power source, we're condemning mankind to Hell! When we do not continue the investigation of the matter-antimatter reactor, which is a higher stage than thermonuclear fusion, we're condemning mankind to Hell! Therefore, it is the creative powers of mankind.

The opposition, as the British Empire typifies this, as Prince Philip typifies this, with this World Wildlife Fund program, is to say: "No, we can not rule this planet as an empire if man is too smart. We do not want man to become intelligent, because man will then shut us off, as a ruling class." And therefore, what man requires, is progress in precisely these terms. And the term is associated with Classical art. One of the reasons we've become so stupid, is because of what happened in 1950, when the Congress for Cultural Freedom, shut down the idea of Classical music and Classical artistic composition.

The creative powers of mankind do not come from mathematics. The creative powers of mankind come from the artistic Classical form of artistic imagination. And it is the pioneering in creativity, by Classical musical composition, other forms of Classical artistic composition, which inspire the mind, to be able to develop the kind of creativity we associate with creative science.

For example, Albert Einstein's a perfect example of this: Einstein was essentially an artist! He was essentially an artist! He was essentially a musician, a poet! And it was the development of his creativity, as a poetic-artistic creativity, which drove his scientific creativity! And that's been the nature of it. The greatest poets, the greatest musicians, the greatest composers, the greatest painters, the most imaginative, have been the inspiration for scientific progress in the history of mankind. Classical poetry, Classical music, have been the driver.

And so, what we're dealing with is, you have a ruling class on this planet, typified by the British Empire—and the British Empire exists! It's not an empire of just territory, it's an empire of a monetarist system. It's like this crazy bailout system. The bailout system is what's killing us! This bailout money is worthless! We should simply cancel it! And Glass-Steagall would cancel it, immediately. We could save the nation.

But what you have, is, you have an ideology, a ruling class, typified by the British Empire, the British royal family, which goes back, again, to the old Roman Empire, which the British Empire is an expression of. And so, this group wants to maintain its power over mankind, as has always been the case! Mankind's tendency is for mankind to develop the natural creative powers which are specific to mankind, and to foster these creative powers, which great art inspires, in the individual—this leads to scientific discoveries. The scientific imagination comes from the artistic imagination, the creative artistic imagination.

And what we're getting now, is the assault on physical science, which is what you're getting in the press right now. "Kill nuclear power, kill science." Science is a threat to their system. It is! Well, the question is: Are we going to mobilize to crush them, or are they going to crush humanity? And so, therefore, what we're talking about in the Basement, essentially is, in our work, we're all musicians and poets, essentially. That's what our inspiration is. And our work in physical sciences, mathematical work, is simply an expression of Classical poetry and Classical music: You'll find that every one among us, who is scientifically competent, is involved in Classical artistic composition, Classical music! And those who don't have that potential are not creative! They tend to be mathematicians. Mathematicians are the lowest form of science. You know, it's somewhere down there, near the Cretaceous level or something like that.

The Greenies Must Be Crushed!

Shields: That's worth drawing out, because our species depends on the production of ideas and concepts, "things" that do not exist yet. That's absolutely essential. Anything, any process that you can reduce to deduction, that you can say, "I can derive the later state from a prior state, or from an existing state," will be entropic. That will collapse. That will always give you something that looks like an animal state: You have a fixed resource base, you have a fixed set of materials. Starting with what you have, you deduce each successive step.

Creativity, human creativity, depends on us being able to willfully create the future, in a way that doesn't exist in the present. And because of that, it's outside of mathematics entirely.

LaRouche: What we're going to have to emphasize to people is what we're working on, and we've emphasized it, of course, in dealing with this crisis: The order of magnitude of power, expressed by this crisis in the Pacific region, exceeds far beyond the imagination of anything that we know to exist, in terms of power produced on this planet! The power involved, expressed in this tsunami, and similar things, exceeds any capability of man's knowledge of thermonuclear fusion power!

Shields: If people want a figure on it: The amount of energy produced in a magnitude 9 earthquake is several tens of thousand times the amount of energy that was released in either Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

LaRouche: Yes. And that's what we're dealing with right now.

Shields: Right. The amount of power that's produced in the solar flare that's connected to it, a single solar flare, is millions of times what was released at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. This is beyond people's ability to imagine.

LaRouche: And you see the problem: Why the fakery, the lies on saying nuclear power plants are the danger. Why? Take the order of magnitude of a nuclear fission power plant; compare that to any aspect of this crisis: What's the order of magnitude difference?

Shields: Right, right.

LaRouche: So, what's the cause of the crisis, in the Pacific? What's the order of magnitude of the power expressed in what's happening in the Pacific region? And it's going to hit California, and other places, the way it's going now! You can finally have the great slide off into the Pacific can occur in part of California, at any time, with precisely this kind of thing. And the power expressed, is orders of magnitude, completely beyond anything expressed by even a thermonuclear explosion by mankind. It does not even begin to approach, or any combination of thermonuclear explosions, does not begin to approach, the power that's manifest in this crisis we're experiencing in the Pacific right now.

Shields: And if we're not prepared to harness that, we're going to be blind-sided.

LaRouche: Well then, what do say about the Washington Post? What do you say about the New York Times? What do you say about the Financial Times? These guys are worse than Hitler! Because the effects they're going to produce, will probably destroy mankind if we don't stop it! If we don't learn how to control these forces, we can not defend mankind, and the human species'll be extinct, like the whole extinction that occurred some—

Shields: That's right.

LaRouche: And this is an issue: There is no room for compromise with the Greenies. The Greenies have to be crushed! Not crushed physically, but crushed in terms of their influence and authority. Otherwise: No human race! And that's what the word is, that's going out from the Pacific Ocean region right now. Shut down the Greenies! Convert them into human beings from being Greenies!

But that's the great danger: If we care about mankind, we're not going to tolerate what the President of the United States currently is pushing. He's the enemy of mankind, whether he knows it or not. Maybe he's just stupid, maybe he's mentally ill. But what he's doing in practice as policy, is a threat to all humanity!

Hoefle: When you read these newspaper articles, they pretend that they're giving you facts, but what they're really doing is trying to scare the hell out of you. And the emotion that you get, when you read them, is what they're really trying to convey—that this is to terrorize people! They want you to shut your brain down, and start running for the hills!

LaRouche: Ah! That's it. That's the key: Stupidity. The greatest enemy of mankind, is stupidity. What's the effect of this propaganda coming out of this press and out of the mouth of the President of the United States, and so forth right now? It's to make people stupid! If you make people stupid, you can destroy them. And therefore, it's precisely that. This is called the "Stupidity International"—it's a real empire.

This is reality. Are we going to defend humanity, or is the human species going to go extinct on this planet? That's your choice? You want the Greenie movement? You don't want humanity.

Hoefle: And if people look at this, when they start getting that feeling, if they stop, and say, "Wait a minute, I'm being played, here." You know, if you actually think about what's being said, and look at the way they're doing it, it gives you a real insight into how they run their propaganda operations, and it makes you much more capable of defending yourself against this kind of crap.

So, when you get that feeling in the pit of your stomach, that it's time to run for the hills, it's time to stop, and turn your brain back on.

LaRouche: I got that, the first time I really sensed that, was when Franklin Roosevelt died, and we were left with Truman. And I had a sense that humanity was in danger. And I was right!

Shields: I think it's significant to point out—what you're saying is true. It's a willful fraud. I mean, down to the very fundamental concepts. You get the whole Greenie line about equilibrium, the idea of a balance nature. What you just brought out: Never in the history of the Biosphere, has there ever been an equilibrium state! Ever! You see nothing in the whole development—and this is just the Biosphere, and we can branch out much larger, to the scale of the Solar System, to the galaxy—never has there been a period where you could say that the processes were in a perfect balance. That there was anything that was simply cyclical. You've always got anti-entropic development, unless you narrow your view down to a very tiny slice of a single species, which is destined to go extinct. They reach sort of a local equilibrium, and that local equilibrium is a process of them dying.

There's no such thing—and you brought this up as a principle in economics—there's no such thing as standing still anywhere, in the history of the Biosphere. There's no such thing as standing still, anywhere in the universe. If you decide to stand still, if you decide to stop and reach an equilibrium state, that's the moment you begin to die. That's the moment that you begin to collapse, by definition.

So, if you think about what the Greenies are arguing right now, you think about the environmentalist argument, that somehow, you're going to stop the motion toward new energy resources, you're going to stop the consumption and the discovery of new resources, and we're going to try and move back to some kind of stable primitive state, of so-called "sustainable development," they're putting us on the exact same track as every other animal species has been on in the history of the planet. And you will, if we follow that as a policy, even slightly, if we make any compromises with that, then you're setting us up for the exact same kind of extinction phenomena as other species have experienced.

Hoefle: Including the Empire. The Empire goes down, too.

Shields: As well, yes. This will be all the Greenies, the Empire as well: They're going to destroy the human species. This is not something that they're intelligent about. They're going to suffer this as much.

Our question is, whether or not we're going to go down with them.

The Significance of Glass-Stegall

Hoefle: You know, that's crucial, because everything that's being done, from the financial world—now we have this crisis. That by following this imperial line, humanity is destroying itself. Willfully: We're willfully participating in our destruction, when we do these things, when we go along with this bailout policy. When we refuse to go with Glass-Steagall. When we don't stop, and fight back, and return to the mission that mankind has in the universe—that we're participating in our own destruction. And we will get that destruction! We'll get what we're asking for. So we should change what we're asking for.

Shields: Sure. And it makes it real clear. From this standpoint, we're in a position to really discuss, "Well, what is the significance of Glass-Steagall, as a policy? What are you saying, when you're saying 'credit system'?" And most people have the idea, it's a fancy kind of monetary system. It's a new way to arrange the money, where things will work better. But it's not!

With Glass-Steagall, what we're saying, is, you start from the standpoint of the anti-entropic creative development of the human species: that if we don't progress, we will collapse; if there's not constant forward motion, in all respects, meaning a steady increase in the densities of energy that we're able to bring to bear. So, the motion from nuclear fission, away from fossil fuels, towards nuclear fission power; away from nuclear fission power toward nuclear fusion power; and then towards higher energy-density, in the form of matter/anti-matter, other types of creation. But also in terms of the scale of the processes we're able to act on.

Vernadsky made the point that, around the time he's writing, around the turn of the last century, heading into the World War II period, was when he realized for the first time, that we had the potential as a human species, to behave consciously as a Noösphere, to consciously act on a planetary scale. But without moving to that, that that's a necessary motion, in order to sustain the levels of development that are necessary. Right now, we're seeing that we need to expand human activity, beyond the planetary scale, toward the Solar System and beyond. That, without that steady progress, we'll face a collapse. The credit system is: How do you organize yourself, in order to accomplish that kind of progress?

Hoefle: Yes. You have a goal of moving toward higher and higher levels of organization. That should be our responsibility, not just the idea of making a leap here and leap there, but of organizing ourselves, so that we're making a continuous series of breakthroughs and the implementation of the technologies associated with those breakthroughs, to raise man's power over the universe. And that that is our goal. And the credit system is designed to do just that, because with a credit system, you fund those things which cause that to happen. You make sure that you have the educational system, that the people have the standard of living, that allows those things to happen, and you shift everything in that direction.

And you compare that to this monetary system, which is basically a parasitical system, which is sucking the lifeblood out of every transaction, that it's just living, sucking the blood out of the fleas to the dog. It has to die! That kind of a system has to die; it's a cannibalistic system and it can not survive. And the longer we ride that system, the further down we go, until we lose it all. And it's time to jump off.

And you know, the bankers howl about these things, the British nuclear scientists howl about these things, but so what? If they're not howling, we're not doing our job!

Shields: And it's an exciting prospect, because this is everything that's entailed in this, and everything you've brought up from the standpoint of physical economic science—this has major ramifications for every field of study.

If you take a look at the conception of time that's entailed in a monetary system versus a credit system, the monetary system involves the simple deductive, linear time, of abiotic physics. But if you look at human activity, human activity does not ever operate linearly, in time. The creative human individual by definition, the definition of creativity is being able to act consciously on a future which has not yet been created, that can in no way be deduced from any existing present state. That gives you a time that you can't map onto a timeline. There's no simple geometric model for that kind of time.

The way it ends up expressing itself for the human individual, is in the concept we refer to as the simultaneity of eternity: that the action of each individual human being, is as though you're acting on the entirety of time, consciously, as a whole. And it gives you the effect of a dialogue, back and forth between generations; you experience it as a dialogue between generations. The idea of a credit system, has to include that concept of time in it: that the future—significantly the future, but also, past states—are characteristics which can be acted on from the present. At every moment, they're being acted on from the present.

And it gives you, physically, what you're describing, this idea—the effect of it is, when you look at the physical economy, is this continuous sequence of discontinuities. You get the steady reconsideration, moving from energy source, moving from level to level: It's completely different—these are concepts that you'd have to, ultimately, bring back down into physics, to come up with an actual model in the way time, and these other processes function.

We Are the Managers of the Universe

LaRouche: The point is, that the very concept of economics, the way it's taught, especially from a monetarist standpoint, is the principle of entropy. Now you have a population, which is really a population of slaves. Most people don't know it, but they're slaves. They're slaves of one kind or another. And the most efficient slavery is one where the slave wears his own shackles, and put them on at night, or puts them on in the daytime after getting up from sleep.

And what we call "economics" is actually an entropic conception of mankind. And what you have against that, is scientific progress, discovery, and technological progress in general. And it generally goes in the direction, interestingly enough, of increased energy-flux density, always!

And the fundamental principle of economy is not financial economy. It's not monetary systems. And that's the problem. It's the belief in financial economy and monetary systems which morally destroy us, because we believe that value is located in an entropic system, an inherently entropic system. Whereas value is located in increasing the equivalent of temperature. In other words, the energy-flux density of man's action in the universe! That's the only way you can increase the productive powers of labor, for mankind. And the very fact that we believe in financial systems, and monetarist systems, is the Satanic force of destruction of our people! Whether they know it or not!

It's when you say, that physical creativity—for example, I defined, recently to clarify this, this concept of the platform: People think of economy in terms of somebody produces something, by hand or something else, an object, an object by an individual. That's not an economy. That's nonsense! What actual economy is, is increasing the energy-flux density that man commands.

Now, look at this Sun, look even at these solar flares that are hitting the planet. Well, what's the difference between them, and what we do on this planet? Why are we vulnerable to this thing? Because we have lower energy-flux density, than these flares do! These flares outgun us! And when mankind is able to control forces on the level of the Solar System, and when we go beyond that to take over the galaxy, and control forces on the scale of the galaxy, then we're in charge! The object of man's existence, is to get mankind in charge! And mankind's justification for man's existence, is that function!

We are the managers of the universe, that's what our function is. And we become that by developing the techniques, where we represent what, in effect, is called an increase of energy-flux density; that's what the key is. And until economics is civilized, finally—I've been working at this for some time—but until economists become civilized—and realize that value is located in mankind's per-capita capability, empowered to control higher degrees of energy-flux density. And that's what economic progress is: It's man's progress in increasing man's energy-flux density, the power of energy-flux density.

And we have to get rid of this idea of economics in terms of particular parts. We have to think about the process, the platform, and the level of anti-entropy that that platform represents. And that's exactly what we're killing. If we kill nuclear power, you don't develop thermonuclear fusion, you don't worry about matter/anti-matter reactions, you will never be able to control this Solar System—until you get beyond matter/anti-matter reactions, as a controllable force by man.

And we just have to give up this whole idea of economics as it's taught: money, money! Money is only a symbol of what we use, and symbol-minded people are like that. But when we use money, the idea of money as a symbol, we mean, increasing the energy-flux density, per capita and per square kilometer, and that's the real principle of economy!

Substance versus Shadow

Shields: And it gets to a point of—well, you brought it up before, and I think it's a significant principle in your economics—it gets to the idea of substance versus shadow. What has existence, what doesn't. The worship of entropy is really a worship of a false idol, something that doesn't exist at all. Most people, when you say the word "anti-entropy," they think of anti-entropy as being the opposite of entropy; that these two things are sort of positive/negative. But it's not true any more, and you've made the point really clearly: Anti-entropy is no more the opposite of entropy, than a chair is the opposite of its shadow. One exists, the other one is a phenomenon, that you see, that comes up, when you behave in a certain fashion.

LaRouche: Well, what happened, monetarism is an expression of this—it's an expression of a mental disease. Because you locate your identity in a physical act that you perform, at whatever level of energy-flux density is expressed. Whereas, in actuality, man's existence depends upon increasing the energy-flux density controlled by man, to these higher qualities. Once you say that value lies in money, merely a monetary unit, which is a dead unit, you no longer have the concept of the increase of the energy-flux density that's at man's disposal.

For example, take the case of Charlemagne. Charlemagne in his time, was the first that we know of, to break the barrier on inland development. Up to that time, mankind was able to move from maritime culture, up large rivers. And that was upstream largely. Like the Rhine, for a long time, had that significance.

But then, when Charlemagne came in, and brought in canals, what he did, by bringing in canals, is, he increased the ability of mankind to move things from one territory to another, with little effort, and actually increased man's power. Now, this was broken after Charlemagne died, but, when we developed the United States, we followed Charlemagne! First we developed river systems; we developed canal systems with river systems. Then, after the Reading Railroad venture, we went into railroads. With the first railroads, we moved up the pathway of river systems and canal systems. Then we moved to a higher level, to transcontinental rail systems, and so forth.

We now have the ability, as the Chinese are working on this, of 1,000-mile-an-hour transport, in a tube, with people comfortably situated in a tube at a 1,000 miles-an-hour. No airplane can do that, ordinary airplane.

So therefore, we are headed always to an increase of platforms, to a higher level. More power, more electronic power, more chemical power, per man, per capita, per square kilometer. And this is the way that mankind survives. This is the nature of true value; economic value is measured in these terms. And a credit system is: Are you going to increase the energy-flux density of your action, of mankind's action, as the Massachusetts Bay Colony did already in its reforms? And that's what value is. And therefore, the credit system, is credit based on the increase of the potential energy-flux density expressed by man. And that's what the true value is.

And that's where people are brainwashed into believing that, "If I have enough money, I can control things!" And what you see now, we have plenty of money, we have bailout money, which is absolutely worthless! And they're about to print more, which will cause hyperinflation and the destruction of civilization. And anyone who supports these idiots, has to be an idiot themselves.

The President is an idiot. He's a clinical idiot, he's clinically insane. And section 4 of the 25th Amendment says he should be out of office. He should be carted off to some place of safety, where he can't be harmed and so forth.

Hoefle: Well, the more money they print, the more bankrupt they are.

LaRouche: Exactly! Is that an irony? That having money is an indication of a loss of wealth? Doesn't that teach you that maybe the economists are kind of stupid? And I've been convinced of that for a lo-o-o-on-nng time! Since I began forecasting, I always knew that.

Hoefle: That's a pretty radical conclusion.

LaRouche: No, it's a necessary one! Indispensable, if you want to make it! You know, people don't get this Glass-Steagall thing. Sometimes people begin to grasp it, you know, "Oohhhh!!" they will say, "I see what you're saying! Ohhh! I couldn't see that before!" And that's what they're saying, they're saying to us, now, Glass-Steagall: "You mean, by destroying this worthless money, we can save our economy?" They don't see, the great thing is that we're going to destroy billions of dollars of money. Billions upon billions, $25-$35-$50 billions of dollars of money equivalent is going to be eliminated! And that is going to give us a prosperous economy.

Hoefle: Along with the quadrillions in derivatives and other things like that. It's all gone!

LaRouche: That's right, exactly. So therefore, the fact is, you suddenly realize, you've come to the point, that by destroying what some people consider money, you actually improve the economy. Because less money, when it's applied to actual production, to productive values, and the improvement of the power of mankind, is actually a benefit. And the more of the other kind of money you kill off, and more rapidly, the better off you are.

Hoefle: Well, this goes back to your analogy of the Malaysian monkey trap.

LaRouche: Yeah, exactly.

Hoefle: It's only by trying to hold onto that value, as if it's real, that's what kills you!

LaRouche: That's how the farmer eats monkey that night.

Don't Read the English-Language Press!

Shields: It seems, like in that sense, what's occurring right now, around the whole Rim of Fire, we're seeing in Japan, what we saw in New Zealand, what we're seeing moving, as you said, toward Alaska, toward the western coast of the United States, down through South America, this could be a very—in a good way, or a bad way—a clear lesson in energy-flux density. In exactly what is it, that we need to harness, and in that way, a lesson in economic value.

LaRouche: Well, get the report from Japan, which is quite relevant. People who speak Japanese in Japan, are optimistic. Because they recognize that this catastrophe has happened, and they've had catastrophes in the past. Japan is not immune to catastrophes, being in a volcanic region, but the English-speaking people who don't speak Japanese, are terrified and pessimistic, in Japan! But those who speak Japanese—because the English-speakers read the English-language press, and therefore, they're totally depressed, and insane.

Shields: Yes, right.

LaRouche: So, we have to take away the English-language press away from them. And so then they will be happy like the Japanese.

Hoefle: Yeah, we're all going to die, is not exactly optimistic.

LaRouche: We have a yen for a post-dollar regime.

Hoefle: All right, anything else?

LaRouche: No. I tried to excite some people to use their imagination.

Shields: We've got more to come, people should know, going through some correlations, specifically between the solar and biological relationships on Earth, the solar activity and disease rates, etc., to keep painting a clearer and clearer picture for people of exactly what is this process we're talking about harnessing. But they should be in anticipation of that over the next few weeks.

Hoefle: All right, that wraps it up for this week. Keep tuned to the website. We'll have a whole lot more. And this is the most interesting ideological fight in town, so, stay tuned.

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