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This transcript appears in the May 23, 2014 issue of Executive Intelligence Review.

What It Will Take Mankind
To Get to a World Without War

[PDF version of this transcript]

Lyndon LaRouche's regular Friday evening webcast of May 16, 2014 was hosted by Matthew Ogden and Megan Beets. It can be viewed at

Matthew Ogden: I would like to begin with our first question. This is from an institutional contact: "Mr. LaRouche, there are obviously many very pressing and immediate issues that you are concerned with—from the trans-Atlantic financial and economic crisis, to the ongoing events in Ukraine and other flashpoints for possible war. But we want to get your thoughts on a future pending situation. As you well know, Hillary Clinton is seriously contemplating a run for the Democratic Party's Presidential nomination for 2016. If she does decide to run, she will have a serious chance of winning both the nomination and the general election. Our question is speculative, but we are anxious to get to know your thoughts on what kind of Presidency you would envision under Hillary Clinton."

LaRouche: Well, there's more to it than this. This is a complex question. It can be made simple, but in the nature of things now, where we're in a transitional phase, this introduces a new phase of consideration among the other two. The first phase is, we're now still in the Obama phase. The Obama phase really is not connected to what will happen next. But in the meantime, the question of getting rid of Obama is on the table. Bill Clinton has made a statement, a very carefully formulated statement, which would, in effect, create a situation under which Hillary Clinton could become President, but Bill Clinton himself would be the key figure for back-up, which would organize everything which would make that feasible. Because Hillary is not a very strong person in these matters, and she's also been shaken by her experience inside the Federal government since then. But Bill is thinking obviously of the fact that—two things.

First, the situation of the Presidency is not coming up as something for this month, or two months from now or so forth. This is down the line. The immediate situation is, we're on the verge of two wars. One war is the now becoming, not really quite a joke war. That was an operation which was done inside Ukraine, an operation which was assigned to Obama, and Obama couldn't handle it. Putin was too effective and too smart to accept any traps, and any steps which he didn't have to take. And also, Obama's involved himself with supporting a Nazi organization in Ukraine. On top of that, Obama's war in Europe can not work; does not work.

So therefore, the whole thing that's going on in Europe today in the present form, has nothing to do with the future war which is coming down the line. This is much trickier.

The issue is, if Obama fails, as he is failing, the question is, how soon he's going to be dumped. Now there are about four aspects to Obama's present situation where he could be dumped on those grounds alone. In fact, he's on the way to be dumped. But you also have involved people who have to be dumped around him. Some of them are well known, the whole bog of witches, these various kinds of witches. I was thinking of some famous Greek tragedies in which the witches play a key part in being very destructive. And I would say Obama is surrounded by these types of witches; of Democratic Party and Republican Party backgrounds. So this thing is a total mess.

But nonetheless, the question is, how are we going to not only prevent a general war throughout the planet, which would be a thermonuclear war from which very few people would survive, if it were to occur. In the meantime, pure confusion in a situation like this is dangerous.

Now, there's a timing factor. And the timing factor is very important, because very soon, under the present policies of London and Wall Street, there will be a bail-in attempt. A bail-in attempt, run in the London-New York City, etc., area, would blow up the entire economy. Because in one short moment, a bail-in surge, coming through London and going through New York City, would shut down the means of existence of a major part of the U.S. population virtually overnight. There would be no solution.

Now certain things have to happen to prevent these two things from actually happening; from Obama causing some kind of disaster. And Obama is ready to be dumped. I would say it may take a few weeks, a few months to dump him, but he's in the process of being dumped. If the leadership of the Democratic Party—we know who in San Francisco we're talking about—if that leadership gets enough support and goes to work against Obama, they could tend to bring him down quickly. They'd put him under such pressure he'd be brought down. The Democratic Party would not be excluded from dealing with an impeachment drive. The Republican Party could not handle the whole thing themselves. And if we're going to dump him, we have to dump him effectively before the bail-in collapse comes on.

In the meantime, the British Empire, which is another collection of witches and bitches, is actually Satanic. To understand this, when you understand the British Empire, as opposed to some of the satellite entities which are under the arm of the British Empire, but the British Empire itself, including the current Queen, her spouse so-called, and her son, are really purely Satanic evil. Their intention is to reduce the human population from what had been recently 7 billion people to less than 1 billion people. That's their intention; that is what is called a Zeusian policy, in terms of Greek drama. Now the Zeus of the Greek drama of that subject, actually has the name of Satan. This figure called Satan, by that name, was the standard of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire was a Satanic association; the mass killings of Christians and others, the way this was done and so forth, shows you were dealing with a real Satan. The Roman Empire was a collection of Satans.

The model of the British Empire, during the latter part of the period of the American Revolution, that model is also Satanic. The British monarchy today, as a monarchy, is Satanic in its expressed nature. It is not a charge that it has something Satanic about it; the British Empire, the Queen's system—the Queen, her husband, her son, and so forth—they are literally Satanic. Their policy is literally Satanic. The Dutch element associated with the British Empire is also Satanic. So, we know what we're up against; we're up against a Satanic force, which is concentrated in the monarchy, the British monarchy as an imperial monarchy, a direct copy in practice, an explicit copy of the Roman Empire, which was a Satanic formation. This Satanic formation wants to destroy the Earth. It will take great risks in starting even a thermonuclear war to try to bring down the population of Earth; and bring it down, as the Queen has specified, to less than 1 billion people from the recent 7 billion people. That's the intention. This is a Satanic intention; it has the same meaning as Zeus. Zeus is Satan; the same thing. The same idea, the same function, the same characteristic. The Queen, the British monarchy is a Satanic organization.

All right, we're in the United States. Forget Obama. Obama is something to be thrown away. He's in the garbage bucket, but we'd like to get rid of him sooner. But in the meantime, he's not running this war, or the future war; it's a new war. The war is based on trying to invoke the United States' resources, to put them at the disposal of the British Empire. A United States, under the command of the British Empire, would then be an instrument capable of launching a thermonuclear war and possibly surviving the war itself. If the United States does not join Satan and Satan's little mercenary, Obama, then the possibility of a war changes. The nature of the possibility changes. Under those conditions, the British Empire is a disaster.

Now, this brings in another factor. In the middle of this whole process, we have a process in terms of the international financial system, from Europe and the whole trans-Atlantic region implicitly, but especially Britain and what it controls in terms of Europe and also the U.S. economy. Britain and the United States are trapped into the threat of a bail-in process. A bail-in process, hitting the British Empire and Wall Street simultaneously, would blow out the entire trans-Atlantic economy, which would mean money would no longer exist, because of the kind of panic of the kind of inflation built into the system.

So therefore, anyone who is thinking about the future, has to say "All right, there are two wars we have to consider." One is the war that doesn't work; it's a nasty war, it's a dangerous war, it's a war of the Nazi government of Ukraine. The government of Ukraine is essentially a continuation of the Nazi system as it was organized by the same entities under Adolf Hitler. And it also kills Jews; it also kills others in the same way, the same exact same form. But this can be kept under control. The danger is, if this is not dealt with effectively, and if we allow the second phase to come in, where the British Empire says okay, scrap Obama. And the scrapping of Obama is in process. All that's happening is that people are trying to delay the expulsion of Obama from office. That's the danger point. But if we have Glass-Steagall in place before this, if we have the Alexander Hamilton reforms which I've specified, if we have those things in place, we can protect the United States against a collapse. Without that, we can not protect the United States from a collapse.

Now, a change is occurring, which is partly helped by what's happening in Texas with the campaign of our candidate for Senate, [Kesha Rogers]. She's having a successful upsurge, which threatens that she will be the next victor in this race [the Democratic primary election is May 27—ed.]. It's highly likely, unless something goes wrong. She's capable of doing it. And also once you sink Obama—three-quarters of the population of the United States hates Obama—once he begins to fall, his authority tumbles, then we're in a position to do two things. We'll shift the entire party structure to the Democratic Party; the Democratic Party will take over the onrush of the new party, and many Republicans will desert the Republican cause and join the Democratic Party instead. That's the goal.

Now, what you need is a mechanism to quickly put into place a Presidency, a Democratic Presidency to replace the Obama Presidency, which means also the Vice President—or the president of vices, as the case may be. Under those circumstances, Hillary Clinton—who has certain virtues, but she is not temperamentally or otherwise able to set up a campaign machine which would actually unfoolishly take over as the Presidency. She, by herself, as an isolated independent candidate in her own right, would not be successful. However, if Bill Clinton set something up effectively, under the circumstances I've described, then her character as a candidate for the Presidency is looking for a potential Vice President. Now, Bill is not going to be that Vice President, but Bill is going to be the key figure who makes her Presidency and a Vice President actually a feasible operation. And this is very interesting.

Step 1: Glass-Steagall

Bill's approach to this has been carefully architected [see Appendix]. He went through his whole history on the way Glass-Steagall was overthrown. He did not overthrow Glass-Steagall. He was put in a very—he could not have won the fight himself on Glass-Steagall, so, he gave in and hoped that by his giving in, nothing worse than that would happen.

But Dodd-Frank came in; or Dudd-Frank if you prefer. Barney Frank, or Dirty Barnacles, or whatever you call him. They set into motion the Wall Street-London operation which bankrupted the United States. Now the United States banking system is hopelessly bankrupt; it's ready for a deep plunge. We could do something about that! Bill has indicated the problem, in what he's said so far, but it requires something more. And that's where my thinking comes in, because we have to do this.

I have a four-phase policy, which includes Glass-Steagall. Glass-Steagall is a great contribution to a solution. It's the original Franklin Roosevelt Glass-Steagall. But there are other things that are required.

First of all, the United States financial system as a whole is hopelessly bankrupt; it could never be saved. If we don't have a reform, which is to actually reform the whole system of banking. That would mean taking every bank in the United States—the large ones, the small ones, the fringe ones, and so forth—and putting them under a general reorganization plan. The plan would be the plan designed by Alexander Hamilton, on the principle of national banking. The inherent problem of the United States in this term, has been a result of the assassination of Alexander Hamilton. As Secretary of Treasury, Hamilton provided four programmatic statements to provide for that, with all the things he said otherwise in the course of the campaign before that.

These steps would mean that all banks in the United States would be put immediately under an emergency scrutiny, and they would be assessed for what the worthwhile assets are of those banks; the things which are not worthwhile assets will be scrapped. In other words, all worthless assets will be stripped out of the banking system. Only the valid potential in assets will be protected. They will be protected, as banks, under the direction of the Secretary of the Treasury.

This is exactly what Abraham Lincoln did, in establishing the greenbacks, which defeated the British control of the Confederacy. That will work.

Step 2: A Credit System

That, however, is not enough, because here we have a bankrupt country, with masses of unemployment, hopeless health-care conditions, all these kinds of things. So, once we create a new banking system, we have to energize the revised banking system. How many of these banks that are now existing, have viability, viability that is valid? But we don't have the monetary system flow, to make those banks function.

So, therefore, we have to have a backup for the banking system, to provide credit to go through the national employment process and production process, which will then energize the potentiality of these reformed banks, now under national government regulation.

Step 3: Cancel 'Green' Policies

That's not enough. We then have to add to that, a high energy-flux-density program for promotion of two categories of things: specifically, food, and production as we know it today. Real production, not crap, not this stuff, but real jobs, producing real goods, foods, and so forth.

But, that's not enough. Because the United States has fallen way behind. There has been no net progress, per capita, in the economy of the United States since John F. Kennedy. John F. Kennedy's assassination terminated the net economic progress in the U.S. labor force. And the key thing there, was also not only the lack of progress, but also the collapse, resulting from the milking of the economy by the Wall Street crowd. Which means we have to have a special funding for major high-technology projects. Cancel all the green policy! All green policies in the United States must be immediately cancelled, and reversed! They must cease to be in effect! Because without that, you cannot save the United States economy. The whole green policy must go down the ditch, and not come up again.

Therefore, if we go to a high-technology program, higher energy-flux density per capita, and so forth, that is the driver which the Federal government must finance, as a Federal long-term project investment.

The programs will address the problem of water. Water in North America is in a disastrous position, below the immediate top states of the United States. Mexico's in the same situation. This is going to be a major challenge. There are technologies[1] which we've been discussing this past week and earlier, projects which will give us indications of how we can manage the stratosphere, which has the greatest stream of water, above Earth—not on Earth, but above Earth. If we can learn these techniques for using this and managing it, we can develop the water projects [against the droughts] which are about to destroy the Western States of the United States. We can save them, But we need to develop these projects.

Step 4: A Fusion Economy

All of these projects require high energy-flux density production, which means you're operating under a thermonuclear fusion driver-program, as a driver-program for the sources of energy for the entire U.S. economy and its neighbors.

You have to consider each of these things I've already discussed. If you don't take these all into account, you'll not have a solution for the threatened breakdown-crisis of the U.S. economy. The breakdown of the economy means also a chain-reaction collapse of a bail-in style, which catches the entire U.S. population without any resources for recovery, and causes a mass death of the U.S. population. Therefore, we must do this now!

So, we have to throw this bum out [Obama] of office, throw out the whole gang, and go to emergency structures which go to these four points which I've laid out. We have to have an interim change in government which goes to a Franklin Roosevelt kind of recovery act, in which you pull together the elements which must be pulled together, to create viable security for the continuation of the U.S. economy.

Then, in the course of having done that, say, probably two years from now, when the next election for President comes, then if she [Hillary Clinton] is in place, and if the apparatus which I've described is being brought into place, then even with the shortfalls she has in coping with the challenge of being President, she could become a successful President, provided she has a Vice President who's also a strong support; that Bill is operating behind the scenes, as an advisor, to help the whole process; and that we pull together a Democratic Party, and others, who will volunteer for that intention.

That way, we could save the United States. And that's the best shot we have available. And Bill Clinton, therefore, does become a very significant potential factor, in saving the existence of the United States.

Kesha Rogers: Going for Victory

Ogden: Let me ask a question from Kesha Rogers. She is a candidate for United States Senate in the state of Texas, and she's running in a hotly contested Democratic Primary runoff election, which is coming up one week from this coming Tuesday, so in about ten days. She says:

"Hello, Lyn! We are now in the final stretch of my campaign for the U.S. Senate. Everything that the enemy has thrown at me so far, has backfired on them. The Democratic and Republican Parties in Texas, under their current leaderships, are continuing to stick with their losing strategies, with the Democrats' endorsement of a rapidly sinking candidate for U.S. Senate, David Alameel, and their continued apologies for Obama, while the Bush-league Republican John Cornyn is out there backing Obama, for war with Russia.

"I have continued to put forth a real, scientific solution, to address the crisis confronting Texas, and more people are starting to move in response. People are inspired that someone without deep pockets can have an impact and wage a fight. But the majority still don't really understand what victory means. They haven't yet developed the ability to see and define this moment in our lives, as acting not just for today, for an 'election,' but for the future. I'd like you to give some thoughts on this matter."

LaRouche: Okay. Kesha obviously has great potential for winning. The greatest problem she has is the corruption in the Republican and Democratic Party leaderships. Because the Democratic Party is trying to pretend she doesn't exist, and "Mr. Animal" wasn't too good at dealing with that, and the Republican candidate is a real nut. I mean the guy wanted to go to war with Russia; this is clinical insanity! I don't think Texans have gotten that insane yet! So I think if she can beat this Animal-cracker, I think that she has an honest right to gain the vote needed for her election.

The problem then comes—two things. She, as she knows, is faced by a Texas favorite sport, called "Steal the Votes." If you can't win the election honestly, steal the votes, burn the ballot boxes, and so forth.

Now, Alameel's failures—or Animal, if you prefer—his failures, and the scandals against him, have weakened him significantly as an influence. At the same time, there has been an accelerating cascade of support for her. It was based largely in the Texas Hispanic population, which had not been active, because they'd been discouraged; they were the discouraged Democratic Party group. And what she's done in the process of the campaign has strengthened, and mobilized, and moralized, people who otherwise had given up, and thought the cause was hopeless. They now have been convinced that the cause is not hopeless.

Now she has a stiff fight. She could win honestly in this election: A little over week from now, she may have won. The problem is not only the Republican Party, the problem is Alameel—and he's on the down side.

We also have a reflected situation in San Francisco, where we have a House of Representatives candidate there, [Michael Steger]. He's quite capable, and he's doing an excellent job, and finds that the opportunities for doing an excellent job are there.

So, given the crises the United States faces, we're in a situation where, at this moment, Kesha's campaign for Senate from the state of Texas is a real factor in the national political scene, such that, if she wins this election, she could cause an overturn of the trends throughout the national voting system. Because, you remember, three-quarters of the citizens of the United States hate Barack Obama! And it's only negative factors that discourage them from expressing that view positively for any candidate. Any candidate, such as Kesha, who takes off in a large state, as a leading candidate for the U.S. Senate, with ties to the situation west of the Mississippi, ties to the similar problems in the second-largest state in the United States, California—you're going to change the politics of the United States overnight.

All it takes is, for example, a certain qualified member of the Senate, a leader of the faction in the Senate that is out for the scalp of the culpable people around Obama; a person like that, with those qualifications, coming on the scene, to tear Obama apart, for the crimes he's committed; combining that with Kesha's success, would overturn the present situation in the United States by itself, not by one push with a fist, but by lighting the firecracker, lighting the fuse that will set it off.

In other words, you're at a point where the American population in general is ready to suddenly make a surge, to overturn what they seem to have submitted to until now. The hopelessness of their condition of life, especially in health care and employment, and similar things this year, so far, and this impossible condition they live under, which gets worse and worse, week by week, by the new votes and new measures [Obama] takes, this thing is actually ready to be overturned, by the people of the United States, themselves! And Kesha is one of the lightning rods, the chief lightning rod, at the moment, who can set into motion the things that overturn what needs to be overturned.

Obama's on the Skids

Ogden: Let me elaborate a little bit on the point you made about the collapse of Obama, and then, I want to ask a second question.

You've stated that Obama's on the skids, and it's a question of when he goes down, not if. There are four intersecting triggers right now: You've got the process around the Benghazi investigation, and the House is scheduled to begin work on this, this coming Monday. You've got several Democrats who are now coming out in support of this: the former Deputy Director of the CIA, Michael Morell; [former Director of the CIA] Leon Panetta; several Democratic Congressmen; Pat Caddell, who's a leading Democratic pollster, said that Benghazi is the biggest cover-up since Watergate.

Second, you've got what you were just referring to, the fight between Dianne Feinstein in the Senate and the White House on the Bush-Cheney torture program—and the CIA is now attempting to delay the release of this official Senate investigative report.

You've got the continuing cover-up by Obama of the Anglo-Saudi hand behind the 9/11 attacks and the documents related to that, including the documents in Florida from the FBI, but also the 28 classified pages of the Joint Congressional Inquiry Report.

And also you've got the ongoing revelations by Glenn Greenwald and Edward Snowden. Interestingly, this week, in answer to a question from Jason Ross [of the LaRouchePAC Science Team], on behalf of former Congressman Neil Gallagher from New Jersey, Greenwald compared the NSA domestic surveillance program to the targetting of political dissidents inside the United States by the FBI of J. Edgar Hoover. And he promised that the next big revelation that he releases, the next big story is going to be absolutely explosive, on how the NSA targets Americans whom they consider to be political threats within the United States.

So this is a constellation of several processes under way....

Great Projects

I want to ask another question.

This week we've seen quite a few of developments from Eurasia, along the lines of programs that you have advocated for decades. Not only do we have [Chinese President] Xi Jinping calling for the New Silk Road, but we've also seen a lot of very serious developments for the extension of a World Land-Bridge to Africa, agreements that have been signed in Africa for high-speed rail for major cities there; and also a serious discussion of the extension of this across the Bering Strait into North America. There are also tests, experimental work under way, for evacuated-tube maglev trains that can run, potentially, at speeds far greater than the speed of sound, at 1,800 miles per hour—why not? And then we know that there's work ongoing in China on the prospective use of helium-3 mined from the Moon for fusion power.

At the same time, you have Academician Sergei Glazyev in Russia, talking about the adoption of a state credit system for high-technology development in Russia. Glazyev gave an interview this week, to a leading Russian financial news publication, saying that Russia needs to provide national credit in the form of long-term loans for the development of advanced manufacturing, stressing that credit used for investment into the real sector and modernization of a nation's scientific and technological potential, is inherently anti-inflationary, as opposed to money that's simply given away to banks for the purposes of speculation.

You've said a lot this evening already, on greenbacks, on the Lincoln program, on your four-step program for the United States, and on the prospective demise of the Obama Presidency. My question is, how can we imagine the future, in which the United States is integrated into this high-technology, high energy-flux-density development, that's now beginning in Eurasia?

LaRouche: I'm loaded for bear on that one!

The very fact that the British Empire, and it is the British Empire: The greatest single part of the populated land-areas, and the specific corresponding water areas, for the whole planet, is controlled by the British Empire, by the Queen, herself. Now, sometimes, they call them different sections, or something, as if they were some innocent partners; but these are the slaves of the Queen. So, if the Queen cannot, at this point, control the entire planet under conditions of a breakdown crisis, which would wipe out most of the human population, even by a breakdown crisis, let alone a thermonuclear war, then the chance for humanity are very poor. The chances for the existence of humanity are very much in doubt.

However, if the United States does not support the British Empire, in the British Empire's intention to conduct a global thermonuclear war—in other words, if the United States, as leading generals and so forth have made clear, the United States is not about to support the British Empire, in a thermonuclear war! And the only war that could be, would be a thermonuclear war! If the United States does not support that British Empire thermonuclear war program, then the British can't pull it off, because the opposition would be too great. So the British Empire will die, the finest thing that could happen to humanity right now!

Get rid of the British monarchy! I don't care about Britain, Ireland, so forth—they're nations. But this [Empire] is not a nation. This is a Satanic organization! And as I said here, the British system is intrinsically Satanic. It's based on the Roman Empire, which was a Satanic system, explicitly; and Zeus is only a cover name, for Satan. The British Empire is a Satanic phenomenon, modelled on the Roman Empire, and the Dutch attachments to the British Empire. So therefore, if we bring down the Empire's power, then we have produced a condition on the planet, in which general warfare as we have known it heretofore, becomes very quickly a non-possibility.

Then the question becomes, you have to take great projects, which have international implications because of the vast poverty of the planet. You have to have what we call development projects, which extend through large underdeveloped areas, like these great railroad systems, fast railroad systems. We have to build a connection in which we say, the world is composed of groups of sovereign nation-states. Their sovereignty is located in the fact that their culture gives them special qualifications, of the need to understand each other, in terms of the functioning of that part of the world.

However, the system of nations must be coordinated, vast projects of cooperation, throughout the planet, and also to save the existence of humanity by preventing and destroying the threat of asteroids, which could destroy much of the planet, or in certain cases, could destroy the entire human population of the planet.

So therefore, these are the prospects, which means we are going to very high thermonuclear productivity. That will work. So what we should be looking for is that. Because given the conditions of life in the world, we have to go to a high energy-flux-density program throughout the planet: This means thermonuclear fusion-plus; it means we're going to be dragging in some of the helium-3 we have on the Moon. We're going to start bringing it down to Earth, to enhance the potential of thermonuclear fusion. We will be using these extraordinarily high-powered driver programs, which will probably take 20, 30 years to do, but nonetheless, we're making progress. So we will then be able, under those conditions, to actually address efficiently, the problems such as the asteroids, which might extinguish the human species, which obviously should be one of our primary concerns.

But we will bring the planet together, where the nations of planet will be free of warfare—except as police actions, to regulate things that are totally in disorder, where something goes haywire, like putting out a fire. But war as we have known it, as a phenomenon on Earth, will then, if we can solve this problem, be excluded from the agenda, henceforth.

Necessary actions, largely in nearby space, and beyond, or control of climates, vast control of climates throughout the planet as a whole; improving the conditions of Earth, as such, within the Solar System: These will be the great endeavors. We're on the edge of entering that age, if we can get through the immediate situation before us! End this threat of general warfare—it can be done—and start to bring the nations into coordination along this conception. The human population is composed of peoples who have a cultural affinity to working with each other, and that the nations which are so constructed, must be in harmony with one another, or be brought into harmony, repeatedly, with one another. Which means that great projects, of global magnitude and implication, are the proper destiny, for the organization of the future of Earth, as a habitation, now.

Science vs. Mathematics

Megan Beets: The next question was sent in by Ben Deniston, of the LaRouchePAC Science Team, and he asks:

"Hello, Lyn. I'd like to get your thoughts on the strategic significance of the replacement of science with mathematics. To put it simply, replacing scientific thinking with mathematics shackles and constrains the minds of seemingly intelligent thinkers, training people to think in terms of fixed systems, and preventing them from being able to think about change per se.

"Take the case of our recent discussions about the water crisis: This is an example of the effects of mathematics on thinking. We do not necessarily know exactly what the Sun is going to do over the coming years. We do have at least four different lines of evidence, showing that the Sun is weakening, and will likely continue to weaken, in a way which, some say, has not been seen for hundreds of years. Evidence indicates that these types of dramatic solar change are associated with major fluctuations in the Earth's climate system, such as strong variations in the climate of the American West, which can fluctuate between mega-droughts, much longer and more intense than anything we've experienced; to mega-floods, covering the Central Valley of California with many feet of water.

"These types of changes obviously have an effect on the water systems upon which mankind has come to depend. If we had built the North American Water and Power Alliance [NAWAPA] project in the 1960s, we'd obviously be in a much, much better situation to handle these dramatic fluctuations. Because NAWAPA was blocked, the crisis is drastically worse, but even so, we would still, today, be faced with the need to deal with the larger changes which were not being considered when NAWAPA was designed. We must look to higher-order solutions, such as managing and controlling the flows of water vapor in the atmosphere, which determine the feasibility of NAWAPA, or any other river diversion project.

"But I think there's a larger point here. This is the reality of living in a developing, changing universe. The Earth and the Solar System are not fixed, static systems. Mankind's only demonstrated capability to ensure its own prolonged survival, is the capability of creative progress, per se. This is not any specific level of progress, not a specific state of society or project. It is the process of progress itself, of responding to a changing situation by developing new solutions. The substance is the process of developing, not the given solution developed.

"I think many people have difficulty with this distinction. Is this ultimately an expression of the destruction of science, for the sake of mathematics? And can you elaborate the strategic significance of this shift?"

LaRouche: Yes. Well, I would put the emphasis, in terms of the descriptive aspect of the question, on one more concentrated point:

We need to start at the beginning, on the question of the green policy. The green policy is the key to understanding the difference between Satan and Christianity, for example: because the principle of the green policy is intrinsically Satanic. Now, what is the essential principle, in human practice, which from the standpoint of that, defines evil? Don't talk about bad things, and so forth, talk about evil. What do we call evil? We will call evil, the British Empire; we call evil, the Roman Empire. And we find, throughout the world, spots of cannibalism of human beings, and things like that.

So, what we have are diseases of the human species, morally terminal diseases of the human species. No society should be allowed to perform these kinds of actions. We must civilize the human population. Because if they have green policies, they are evil, they are evil in fact.

Now, what does this mean? What makes a human being not evil? Or what should make them not evil, beforehand? That the human mind is based on the increase of the productive powers of labor, is one way of putting it. But how does this function? What's different about mankind, that differentiates man from an evil person? What is it, that's not evil? We have behavior by animals which is evil, by human standards, but we don't worry about that too much, because we know they're not human. But, when human beings become like beasts, and use human will and capabilities and tools [to do evil things], then you have evil.

So the whole question comes to the principle of chemistry; not chemistry as a bunch of formulas of cookbooks. Anyone who cooks food for the first time, knows that the idea of cooking does not necessarily produce an edible meal. So the question is, what is the characteristic of a human being who meets human qualifications, rather than the standard of animal qualifications? The human being is able to express changing the future. It's just like the first hypothetical, civilized man, who probably was first known in some place like South Africa, and who did the remarkable thing, the exceptional thing, that no animal would ever do: to cook its own food at night. No animal will willingly cook its own food at night.

The cooking of food has to be looked in terms of what the implications are of the cooking of food by fire. It means that you're increasing the energy-flux density in terms of the characteristics of the species. We call this "chemistry."

Now, our understanding of chemistry as we used it in schools, during the course of the latter part of the 19th Century, and into the 20th Century, is now rather crude, by comparison with what we know about chemistry now. We've gone beyond anything that the Table of Elements ever accounted for. We're now going way beyond that! We're now going to thermonuclear and super-thermonuclear processes. We're looking at the way in which the Sun operates.

Chemistry meant that mankind will use his knowledge of the increase of energy-flux density, as a product of the behavior of the human individual in human society. That's what this is all about. What do the Zeusians, the Satanic people do? The Satanic people say, "Go to lower forms of life": the green policy! The green policy is a specifically Satanic policy. The people who propose a green policy, are specifically Satanic people. Because a healthy form of the human species is to develop the higher levels of intellectual behavior, more productive behavior. That's what the issue is.

So therefore, the way you have to attack this; first of all, you have to eliminate the green policy. And to treat the green policy as equivalent to mass murder through cannibalism, because that's what it's doing in effect. We want to cook the inedible, that's very bad, that's terrible: so we eliminate the inedible factor. And now people are judged by the degree to which they become, in each generation, superior in capability and power, to the previous generation. That is the human principle.

The cannibal, for example, is abhorrent for just that reason. Primitive people are problematic, acutely problematic, because of their incompetence. They lack the means to take of themselves. They get diseases they shouldn't have, or should be able to cure. Methods of sanitation are available to them, but they don't know how to use them and don't build them. They become desperate, because of the blocks, to the ability to solve their problems of population growth and things of that sort.

Whereas the truly human being, is a creative being, who is always struggling to do better intellectually, in terms of the productive powers of mankind. That's humanity. People who oppose that, the green policy, are intrinsically evil; they may not know they're evil, but if they're green, they are evil, because they're destroying their fellow creatures, they're destroying fellow human beings, they're destroying society.

And that is the actual core, because the history of mankind is the increase of the energy-flux density, which is expressed productively in the development and advancement of the technologies used by mankind, is the intrinsic nature of mankind. Mankind which is not progressing in that way is a denatured mankind! A degenerate mankind! Mankind's destiny and commitment, is always to life of the human species, to a higher level of existence, to gain power to control dangerous asteroids, for example; to deal with the crises that threaten mankind.

The Sun is dying, in a sense, right now—in a dying period; it may recover some time later, but then, the Sun is merely a solar body going through the galaxy. It's being bounced around in its trip through the galaxy. We don't know what the survival potential of the Sun is going to be for us, and we depend upon the Solar System. We don't control it all, particularly now. But the time is coming, we're going to inevitably have to deal with that case.

And mankind is actually a creative being in the true sense, as no known animal species is. Mankind is, in a sense, a sacred person, inherently sacred, constantly dedicated to the purpose of a higher mission of achievement, by the human species, for whatever missions are assigned to it, by the challenges created within the Solar System and beyond.

That is morality! That is a true definition of human morality. We set a different standard for dogs, cats, and so forth—and skunks! But, the problem here, is when you reduce man to becoming like cattle, like the pigs you slaughter to eat, as the cannibals do, slaughtering people because they don't like them! Denuding the human population of its talents and skills—that is a crime against humanity, for which they rot in Hell forever, for committing that kind of crime!

Our commitment is to the principle which is implicit in the uniquely remarkable characteristic of the human species, which is like no other species presently known to us. It is the only truly creative species, creative by will, in all the living things that we know. It is also a force, and will become increasingly a force if we do our job; mankind will do more and more to manage, to improve Earth, beyond what Earth itself can do for itself. Mankind is going to take the area beyond Earth itself, where the asteroids roam; we're going to bring these creatures—we're not going to destroy them—we're going to bring them under order! We're going to shape their trajectories, so they won't be hitting us. We will look at these things, we will tame them, with the powers we shall acquire: we shall mine these asteroids, for any scarce minerals and so forth that are needed, for the purposes of man's mission within the Solar System.

We have to have an understanding and adoption of that morality. Of the morality of true meaning of chemistry. And chemistry is what? Is it a natural product? Well, in a sense. But chemistry is man's sacred power to develop mankind itself, through self-development, to a higher, more powerful species, in our present domain, and in facing the challenge whereby the Solar System and beyond is going to come to us, and say, "Do this." And, if we're good, we will find ourselves miraculously able to do, exactly, those previously impossible, good things. This is called creativity: This is the true destiny of mankind.

You know, when people die, for example, this is a very frightening thing for most people. It's frightening, because the loss of someone you love and appreciate, is actually an injury to you on the one hand, but you say, "Everyone dies." Then, what's the meaning of this process of life and death in the human species? It's not like the animal, because the human being, if they're doing what human beings should do, are always, in each generation, becoming more powerful, a unit in terms of the progress of mankind, to higher levels than before.

So the life and death of a person is not a tragic process, if those persons involved, are actually contributing to the advancement of the characteristic of the human species, within the Solar System and beyond. The meaning of life lies in the discovery of higher principles, higher energy-flux densities, greater power of mankind as an individual, to conquer problems which were previously impossible. Training young people, so that in the educational process, each becomes wiser and more powerful in effect, than the previous generation. So the life and generation, and the death of a person or people, should be joyful! Because the termination of life contains within it, the promise of a greater achievement of the human species, than before.

We have to get through all these conventions that we throw around, the fears that we show, and recognize that the human species is a really, truly sacred species, in its own innate nature. It's the only species of that type, with which we have become personally acquainted, in our experience so far. We would hope, for meetings, of a higher level.

[1] See video at

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